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Old 07-11-2019, 06:47 PM   #281
Erick Estrada
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Pavelski will be missed, but they are still a deep team with a really good D. Goaltending is a question mark, but if it holds up, they should have no problem grabbing 1 of the 3 divisional spots.
Yeah I think they are going to be in the race for first in the Pacific this season. The Pacific division is arguably the worst in the league. After the Flames, Sharks, and Knights the decline is steep as I am not a believer in the Coyotes at all as a playoff contender.
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:03 PM   #282
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I am going to be really curious about Phil Kessel, his acquisition has the markings of a disaster. Him and the GM could go out for drinks and it would be hard to tell which one is the player.
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:08 PM   #283
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Vlasic was named today as the player with the fourth-worst contract in hockey

He is rapidly approaching Brent Seabrook territory with no clear replacement and seven more years left on his deal. It'll be a poision pill for that team.
7 more years? Wow that is ridiculous
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:38 PM   #284
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I am going to be really curious about Phil Kessel, his acquisition has the markings of a disaster. Him and the GM could go out for drinks and it would be hard to tell which one is the player.
Then you compare their stats and one put up a point a game last year. Who gives a #### what someone looks like.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:39 PM   #285
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The Sharks are tough to pin down. They'll have a full season of a fully integrated Karlsson, which is a plus, but it's hard to judge whether he'll be 100% with his skating. Contrast that with Vlasic, who could either have a bounce back year or continue to decline. If so, you have to hope for significant contributions from guys like Tim Heed and Brendan Dillon, which is setting yourself up for disappointment. At forward, they lose key leadership in Pavelski and maybe Thornton, but I honestly think that if you put Timo Meier in Pavelski's spot you might actually do even better than you would have with Pavelski there. The Labanc deal is fantastic, but then you have the rest of the forward corps and it's frankly pretty awful, with Nyquist and Donskoi gone. They have no depth. And then there's the ever pertinent question about whether Martin Jones can be anything close to league average - I'd bet he doesn't.

So yeah, it'll actually be pretty interesting to see if having that thin a lineup puts the Sharks at risk of missing the playoffs. Having a top forward tandem of Couture / Kane doesn't seem like a good idea.
Not a bad assessment, but you didn't mention Burns who is a top-20 player in the league. He gets them in the playoffs next year IMO.
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:45 AM   #286
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Burns may be a top 20 player, I don't have a strong opinion on that point. But regardless, one guy doesn't get you in the playoffs. Even two guys don't. If you don't surround those guys with some roster depth and decent goaltending, you're still screwed. Look north for evidence of that.

If there's something I neglected to mention, it's coaching and culture, which the Sharks do have. That could carry them through even if the roster proves as thin as it looks on paper.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:02 PM   #287
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Yes because the Flames had a horrible season without him in their lineup. Reminds me of the whiners that said the Sven Baertschi trade was a mistake and would haunt the Flames. Stocking up on ex-Flames has not paid large dividends for the Canucks.
But they did have more playoff success with him in the lineup
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:11 PM   #288
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Vlasic was named today as the player with the fourth-worst contract in hockey by The Athletic's Dom Luzczyszyn, and I'm inclined to agree with him... Vlasic put up a -7.7 relative Corsi% last season and was the only defenseman on the Sharks with a negative expected goals differential. He was the worst defenseman on the team by almost every metric.

He is rapidly approaching Brent Seabrook territory with no clear replacement and seven more years left on his deal. It'll be a poision pill for that team.
His contract looks bad, due to term, and he had a tough year, but he is a great player. Not trying to hack on you, but you continue to show the impatience, and what-have-you-done-for-me-lately mentality of the very young. I understand, and that's who you are, but it's a dangerous way to evaluate players.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:31 PM   #289
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His contract looks bad, due to term, and he had a tough year, but he is a great player. Not trying to hack on you, but you continue to show the impatience, and what-have-you-done-for-me-lately mentality of the very young. I understand, and that's who you are, but it's a dangerous way to evaluate players.
No more dangerous than waiting endlessly for guys to turn it around or finally emerge, which seems to be how you lean.

Vlasic hasn't been a great player for a couple of years. In fact, he's been one of the worst possession players on the Sharks for the last 3.

Sometimes the writing is finally on the wall in big red ink. There's no credit earned for ignoring it.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:35 PM   #290
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No more dangerous than waiting endlessly for guys to turn it around or finally emerge, which seems to be how you lean.

Vlasic hasn't been a great player for a couple of years. In fact, he's been one of the worst possession players on the Sharks for the last 3.

Sometimes the writing is finally on the wall in big red ink. There's no credit earned for ignoring it.
ok then
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:54 PM   #291
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Incidentally, Johnny made Dom Luzczyszyn's list of the top 10 best contracts in the league, while Sidney Crosby (and perhaps more importantly, Leon Draisaitl) didn't, so... that's nice.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:02 PM   #292
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His contract looks bad, due to term, and he had a tough year, but he is a great player. Not trying to hack on you, but you continue to show the impatience, and what-have-you-done-for-me-lately mentality of the very young. I understand, and that's who you are, but it's a dangerous way to evaluate players.
I'm not just showing impatience or what-have-you-done-for-me-lately. Vlasic is, what, 33? And he is continuing a decline which began two or three years ago. He's following a very similar trajectory to many defensemen. Brent Seabrook, Dion Phaneuf, and Karl Alzner come to mind. Those kinds of players rarely get better suddenly in their mid-30s.

But please, continue using ageism to justify your ill-conceived notions.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:07 PM   #293
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Interesting, I still think Vlasic is a pretty good player. Contract is a bit much but he's still a very bonafide top 4 dman
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:18 PM   #294
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I'm not just showing impatience or what-have-you-done-for-me-lately. Vlasic is, what, 33? And he is continuing a decline which began two or three years ago. He's following a very similar trajectory to many defensemen. Brent Seabrook, Dion Phaneuf, and Karl Alzner come to mind. Those kinds of players rarely get better suddenly in their mid-30s.

But please, continue using ageism to justify your ill-conceived notions.
He turned 32 in March. Which, for defensemen, is not typically past their best-before date. Suggesting he has been on a 3-year decline is highly debatable. Comparing him to Seabrook, at this point, is laughable.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:33 PM   #295
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He turned 32 in March. Which, for defensemen, is not typically past their best-before date. Suggesting he has been on a 3-year decline is highly debatable. Comparing him to Seabrook, at this point, is laughable.
I wonder why that is.

If it is even true (it seems to be) that defensemen tend to enjoy greater longevity and/or better success at an older age than forwards, what is the reason for it? Is it because they get hit less than forwards? Does it have to do with skating?

Who knows?
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:38 PM   #296
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I wonder why that is.

If it is even true (it seems to be) that defensemen tend to enjoy greater longevity and/or better success at an older age than forwards, what is the reason for it? Is it because they get hit less than forwards? Does it have to do with skating?

Who knows?
I think there might be a pretty simple reason for it...

Offense is action. Speed and confidence are key. So youth can excel.

Defense is reaction. It is much more of a learned skill. Takes longer to get there, and players can remain useful, even as their physical skills begin to dullen (only to an extent, of course)
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:01 PM   #297
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But they did have more playoff success with him in the lineup
Flames had more playoff success than Ferland last year...Canes didn't win a game in which he played and finished

When he was last in the playoffs with the Flames they were swept
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:09 PM   #298
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I think there might be a pretty simple reason for it...

Offense is action. Speed and confidence are key. So youth can excel.

Defense is reaction. It is much more of a learned skill. Takes longer to get there, and players can remain useful, even as their physical skills begin to dullen (only to an extent, of course)
That's the problem though. Vlasic's offence has largely remained the same over the last 3 years (after a drop from a career-high 4 years ago). His defence is what is getting worse, with a decline across the board in pretty much every measure.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:55 PM   #299
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Flames had more playoff success than Ferland last year...Canes didn't win a game in which he played and finished

When he was last in the playoffs with the Flames they were swept


I mean... Carolina scored a whopping 6 goals in a 4-0 series sweep.

the entire team sucked.
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:16 PM   #300
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I mean... Carolina scored a whopping 6 goals in a 4-0 series sweep.



the entire team sucked.
Very much like the 2019-20 Vancouver Canucks.


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