[Rumour] Kadri used his NTC to nix a trade to the Flames involving TJ Brodie

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

They age differently?!

Haha damn it. Bad headache + no coffee = trying to clarify something and accidentally making it even more confusing.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You could argue anything.

You could even argue that Kerfoot could be more productive if he was slotted with linemates the calibre of Gaudreau and Monahan.

Perhaps he would then over-overachieve

lol yes, that's what Weitz suggested and I was responding to.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

3 years of Kadri at a very good cap hit is worth way more than 1 year of Brodie with a good cap hit.

I agree Kadri is the best asset in the trade due to the length and dollar value on his contract. Is he the best player? Highly debatable and I would tend to lean toward the top pairing D over the second line C when it comes to overall value to a team player wise.

I was replying to a typical Leaf fan who constantly value their players above other teams.

[Weitz]

Its not terrible to suspect that Kerfoot could jump to 70 ish points playing with say Matthews and someone or with taveres and Marner. I was just stating its not like his stats are much different than Lindholms were the 2 years before his breakout last year.

Yes one has a lot higher pedigree than the other but that doesn't negate what he has done so far. I also don't expect kerfoot to put up 70 points.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I agree Kadri is the best asset in the trade due to the length and dollar value on his contract. Is he the best player? Highly debatable and I would tend to lean toward the top pairing D over the second line C when it comes to overall value to a team player wise.

I was replying to a typical Leaf fan who constantly value their players above other teams.

I would also believe that Kadri would be a more desirable player regardless of contract.

I don't believe that Brodie is a first pairing d-man. And I'm guessing that's where we disagree.

If he is considered a first pairing d-man by other GM's, the Flames will get a boatload of stuff back in a trade.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Its not terrible to suspect that Kerfoot could jump to 70 ish points playing with say Matthews and someone or with taveres and Marner. I was just stating its not like his stats are much different than Lindholms were the 2 years before his breakout last year.

Yes one has a lot higher pedigree than the other but that doesn't negate what he has done so far. I also don't expect kerfoot to put up 70 points.

I guess the Kerfoot might hit 70 points in the right situation, but Lindholm's trade value when the Flames got him was considerably higher than Kerfoot's is right now.

Many felt that Lindholm was a budding star. I haven't heard that suggested about Kerfoot.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I would also believe that Kadri would be a more desirable player regardless of contract.

I don't believe that Brodie is a first pairing d-man. And I'm guessing that's where we disagree.

If he is considered a first pairing d-man by other GM's, the Flames will get a boatload of stuff back in a trade.

I do think the Flames will get a nice return when they eventually trade Brodie. If the team valued him as some fans here do he would have been moved for a couple of seconds at the draft. The fact he was a centerpiece of the Kadri deal makes a lot more sense to me valuewise.

If the tables were turned and Kadri was entering the last year of his deal and Brodie had 3 years left on his that trade would have looked terrible for the Flames.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I do think the Flames will get a nice return when they eventually trade Brodie. If the team valued him as some fans here do he would have been moved for a couple of seconds at the draft. The fact he was a centerpiece of the Kadri deal makes a lot more sense to me valuewise.

If the tables were turned and Kadri was entering the last year of his deal and Brodie had 3 years left on his that trade would have looked terrible for the Flames.

Supply & demand. The first shoe to drop is Gardiner. Once he signs the Flames will have to find a partner who has the need & cap space for Brodie. Bare in mind similar quality defence men such as Nick Leddy, Shayne Gostisbhere & Jarred Spurgeon are also rumoured names that have been out there.

At this point, I would have to think it's a buyers market. If the Flames could get two 2nd's, I would be all over that.

[bubbsy]

I'm over the fact that Kadri won't be a flame. He was my dream/ideal trade target for this offseason.

however, I am a bit surprised at how quiet the trade/signing front has been. We know that Treliving has been able to keep his moves under the radar in the rumour mills, but I do wonder if he's still big game/deal hunting, or if he's having trouble finding landing spots with a fairly difficult market (not many teams that may be in the market for brodie/frolik, and those that are may not have the cap or assets).

This has got to be the quietest offseason the flames have had in forever (2 decades?!), I understand last seasons strong season results and not needing a major overhaul, but some fresh personnel would help reinvigorate some excitement in the team and the fanbase, after an alarming butt kicking they received against the 8th seed.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I am a bit surprised at how quiet the trade/signing front has been.

If you're talking about defensemen specifically, the Brodie market dried up when all the of the blueliners on the block played musical chairs last week. I think Tre missed the boat a bit if he really did overvalue his defenders as rumored. Also no thanks to Kadri for nixing the deal.

That said, trading Brodie may be more plausible now as training camp approaches and teams see what they have. No doubt some teams will lose faith in their projections and need a quality blueliner.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

If you're talking about defensemen specifically, the Brodie market dried up when all the of the blueliners on the block played musical chairs last week. I think Tre missed the boat a bit if he really did overvalue his defenders as rumored. Also no thanks to Kadri for nixing the deal.

That said, trading Brodie may be more plausible now as training camp approaches and teams see what they have. No doubt some teams will lose faith in their projections and need a quality blueliner.

I agree but I don't think the flames have the luxury to wait till camp to make trades. They need to make trades in order to get all their RFAs signed I think.

[Strange Brew]

Dump Frolik for whatever picks you can get and then you can be patient in trading a D. That should create just enough room.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I agree but I don't think the flames have the luxury to wait till camp to make trades. They need to make trades in order to get all their RFAs signed I think.

Trading Brodie at Calgary's convenience is no long a luxury Treliving has, I think. It will happen when another team comes calling because they get the willies in mid-to-late August. That's just my guesstimate.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

3 years of Kadri at a very good cap hit is worth way more than 1 year of Brodie with a good cap hit.

Brodie at 4.65M is a better contract than Kadri at 4.5M is, but yeah the length involved does boost Kadri's value. Top pairing defenceman > 3rd line centre, generally speaking.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Brodie at 4.65M is a better contract than Kadri at 4.5M is, but yeah the length involved does boost Kadri's value. Top pairing defenceman > 3rd line centre, generally speaking.

Kadri isn't a 3rd line C though. When given 2nd line C mins he's provided 2nd line offensive numbers.

He's a rugged 2nd line C in my view. He's a better offensive 2nd line C than backlund, but worse defensively.

[neo45]

If Kadri is a third line center then Malkin is a second line center

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by neo45

If Kadri is a third line center then Malkin is a second line center

huh? Malkin isn't a second line center though.

Even by using that argument, kadri WAS the leaf's 2nd line center and scored 30 goals in the years he was, prior to the Tavares signing.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

huh? Malkin isn't a second line center though.

Even by using that argument, kadri WAS the leaf's 2nd line center and scored 30 goals in the years he was, prior to the Tavares signing.

Exactly my point

[bubbsy]

haha, now I see what you are getting at. my bad, we're saying the same thing.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Kadri isn't a 3rd line C though. When given 2nd line C mins he's provided 2nd line offensive numbers.

He's a rugged 2nd line C in my view. He's a better offensive 2nd line C than backlund, but worse defensively.

Tough argument to have, because he was the 3rd line centre on Toronto last year, and they were a good team.

It comes down to slotting - I'd argue Backlund and Monahan are better players than Kadri, as are Matthews and Tavares. I'd go down the list of the better teams in the league and would say that Kadri would be a 3rd line centre on those teams as well.

Tampa
Calgary
Boston
Washington
Pittsburgh
Nashville
Winnipeg
St. Louis
San Jose
Vegas

So, I'd say he's a very good 3rd line centre, but a 3rd line centre on a good team nonetheless. He could be considered a "2B" on some teams, but it comes down to team structure. The Blues won the Cup with depth down the centre, which Kadri would have fit into - but if push came to shove, I'd slot Schenn ahead of Kadri, making Kadri the 3rd line centre on that team as well.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Tough argument to have, because he was the 3rd line centre on Toronto last year, and they were a good team.

It comes down to slotting - I'd argue Backlund and Monahan are better players than Kadri, as are Matthews and Tavares. I'd go down the list of the better teams in the league and would say that Kadri would be a 3rd line centre on those teams as well.

Tampa
Calgary
Boston
Washington
Pittsburgh
Nashville
Winnipeg
St. Louis
San Jose
Vegas

So, I'd say he's a very good 3rd line centre, but a 3rd line centre on a good team nonetheless. He could be considered a "2B" on some teams, but it comes down to team structure. The Blues won the Cup with depth down the centre, which Kadri would have fit into - but if push came to shove, I'd slot Schenn ahead of Kadri, making Kadri the 3rd line centre on that team as well.

fair. I would diasagree, however. Like I said above, at least in my opinion, kadri is a more offensive, worse defensive C than backlund. I prefer my 2nd line C provide offence, so as to relieve some pressure from the top line. As such, I'd prefer to have kadri as my 2nd line C over backlund.

Anyways, it's all a moot point at this stage. The question now really is, if not kadri, who we know management saw as a desirable target, then who!!!