Off Season Trade rumours thread - Brodie, Frolik, Stone etc. Only

[Larry David]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The trade that would make more sense for Calgary would be Monny and Neal for Hall (with an extension in place).

If they trade for Hall, it's to play with Johnny.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That doesn't make much sense to me at all. Gaudreau and Hall are both left wingers, and the Flames sans Monahan are suddenly woefully shallow at centre ice.

it doesn't make sense for the Devils either as it's a bad trade for them. I mean if we are going to make fun of a Gaudreau, + for Hall proposal, sorry to say but this but a Monahan + Neal for Hall (with extension in place) is as equally as bad or worse from the Devils perspective

[djsFlames]

Can't believe we've not had one big flames transaction, all through the draft and start of free agency, aside from Talbot which was known in advance. I guess trades involving Brodie or frolik are just that hard to come by right now. Wouldn't have thought that would be the case. Gardiner holding things up maybe or what? There has to be an appetite for TJ out there.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Can't believe we've not had one big flames transaction, all through the draft and start of free agency, aside from Talbot which was known in advance. I guess trades involving Brodie or frolik are just that hard to come by right now. Wouldn't have thought it would be the case. It Gardiner holding things up?

I think it's a combination of the RFA market, which is putting team budgets into question, and the stagnant UFA market.

[djsFlames]

I point at those awful contracts signed early in the off-season leading to this. The more productive RFAs are thinking they're worth a ####ton when Skinner gets a contract like that.

These stalemates that stretch out over the summer and hold everything else up are the worst.

[Flash Walken]

One of the Pierre's said the flames were overvaluing their veteran defenders.

At this point I have to assume that was in reference to the trade market and explains why many, many other defenders have been moved over the last two weeks and why Calgary hadn't made a transaction.

I think deals for Brodie and hamonic were out there at the draft but aren't there anymore.

So many defenders that are situational or cap comparable to Brodie have been moved it's hard to argue a reason Brodie hasn't, with the exception of the deal with Toronto.

[Demzy84]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Wow had to go check that out for myself. The Devils would need to add significantly to Hall if they want Gaudreau and his great contract and lack of injury history.

Honestly I am not sure what the Devils could realistically add to have that deal make sense? Obviously Hughes and Hischer would be assets the Flames covet but then the scales are tipped way in the Flames favor. Good thing it is BS

Yeah, but we add some late round picks and we get Hall plus years of winning the draft lottery /s hahahaha

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Larry David

it doesn't make sense for the Devils either as it's a bad trade for them. I mean if we are going to make fun of a Gaudreau, + for Hall proposal, sorry to say but this but a Monahan + Neal for Hall (with extension in place) is as equally as bad or worse from the Devils perspective

I'm not so sure that it's that bad.

Devils basically trade Hall with one year remaining for an established star like Monny with a reasonable contract in place.

I'm assuming Hall, in this scenario, won't sign an extension with NJ.

They are not likely to get a better deal from anyone else.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

One of the Pierre's said the flames were overvaluing their veteran defenders.

At this point I have to assume that was in reference to the trade market and explains why many, many other defenders have been moved over the last two weeks and why Calgary hadn't made a transaction...

That was Pierre McGuire, who is easily the least of the Pierre's [sic.]. I tend to think that he has about the same amount of actual insider information as the attentive fan.

But more to the point, he was not positing that the Flames were pricing themselves out of the trade market by over-asking for their defensemen, rather he was arguing that they were too reticent to let go of their veteran defensemen in favour of several young prospects who look ready to make an impact as early as next year. It was his way of saying that the Flames were overly cautious about inserting rookies into their blue line, which is par for the course as far as McGuire's market insight.

[Rando]

Pierre Mcguire's point was more about undervaluing their young D prospects, thinking the Flames shouldn't be so hesitant to move on from their older guys. I'm going to guess FW didn't see the segment. It certainly wasn't about overvaluing those guys in trades and being afraid to move them.

Also wasn't Brodie moved just a week ago in a trade that was nixed? If not for that he would've been gonzo.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I'm not so sure that it's that bad.

Devils basically trade Hall with one year remaining for an established star like Monny with a reasonable contract in place.

I'm assuming Hall, in this scenario, won't sign an extension with NJ.

They are not likely to get a better deal from anyone else.

So our LW picture includes Gaudreau, Hall, and Tkachuk and our top center is Backlund? I understand Lindholm can be moved to C but then our right side is extremely weak.

I think a Hall for Monahan deal makes sense if the Flames are trading Gaudreau for a new number 1 C. Let’s say the Flames trade Monahan for Hall then to re-sign Hall it will likely be a $10M per deal. If they trade Gaudreau for Point it will likely be another $10M deal. Flames shakeup their core by adding nearly $7M cap to their team. The positive end of those moves would likely be 6-7 years of term left rather than 3-4.

Ultimately I don’t see either move happening and the earliest we see a Gaudreau/Monahan trade would be next summer.

[Larry David]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I'm not so sure that it's that bad.

Devils basically trade Hall with one year remaining for an established star like Monny with a reasonable contract in place.

I'm assuming Hall, in this scenario, won't sign an extension with NJ.

They are not likely to get a better deal from anyone else.

I'm looking at the inclusion of Neal in the deal as the deal breaker. Marleau was traded with a first round pick this summer in order for the Leafs to get out of the final year of his contract. I think James Neal is in the same boat for the Flames right now. Might be even harder to move because of term. So that and the fact that Hall comes with an extension in place, makes the trade unlikely.
I get what you are trying to say about NJ might not being able to sign Hall, but we don't even know if that is the case. I look at it like this. Would NJ trade an extended Hall for Monahan one for one? If not, why would a piece with negative value be included.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Larry David

I'm looking at the inclusion of Neal in the deal as the deal breaker. Marleau was traded with a first round pick this summer in order for the Leafs to get out of the final year of his contract. I think James Neal is in the same boat for the Flames right now. Might be even harder to move because of term. So that and the fact that Hall comes with an extension in place, makes the trade unlikely.
I get what you are trying to say about NJ might not being able to sign Hall, but we don't even know if that is the case. I look at it like this. Would NJ trade an extended Hall for Monahan one for one? If not, why would a piece with negative value be included.

I don't disagree with what you are saying per se. But I'm not giving much value to NJ for the extension, because they have nothing to do with that extension.

I think the chance to get a player like Monny (instead of the Karlsson like return) might make getting Neal also as palatable. If NJ wants to be relevant now, getting a player like Monny is likely the best they can do for, essentially, 1 year of Hall..

[ricardodw]

Is Brodie really going to be traded?


How important is Gio to the Flames success?

Last season playing mostly with Brodie he won the Norris and was a +39.

The previous season playing with Hamilton he was +0

The 2018-19 Flames as a team scored 196 even strength goals and let in 156 es goal differential of 40

the 2017-18 Flames team scored 158 es and 169 against - a differential of -11


The Flames brain thrust has to thinking will Andersen / Hamonic or Valimaki playing his wrong side be better for Gio than Brodie?

a lot of Brodie's glaring mistakes were because he was quick enough and smart enough to get in position to make an apparently easy play that he goofed up.

Hamilton did not make these same glaring errors because he was so far out of position that Gio would have to be covering for him.


If the Flames trade Brodie will their next hole to be filled someone to play the big minutes with Gio?

Hard to overstate the importance of extending Gio's elite play at age 35.

If Brodie is to be traded he can go for a 1st and prospect at the trading deadline.... or if the Flames are solid contender at the deadline he can serve as their deadline addition.

[Chr1s]

nvm

[dammage79]

So theoretical are being talked about where some think Monahan isnt a true #1 c and now there's talk of Monahan and Neal for Hall leaving the team with 0 #1 centers. SMRT.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Chr1s

Do you even watch Games? Or just looking at stats and numbers ?

what are you saying? The stats were not indicative of the play on the ice?

That Brodie and Gio were not great as a top-2 pairing?

That Gio was carrying Brodie and just did a better job than he could with Hamilton?

Or that Anderssen just looked better than Brodie ?

[Split98]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Is Brodie really going to be traded?


How important is Gio to the Flames success?

Last season playing mostly with Brodie he won the Norris and was a +39.

The previous season playing with Hamilton he was +0

The 2018-19 Flames as a team scored 196 even strength goals and let in 156 es goal differential of 40

the 2017-18 Flames team scored 158 es and 169 against - a differential of -11


The Flames brain thrust has to thinking will Andersen / Hamonic or Valimaki playing his wrong side be better for Gio than Brodie?

a lot of Brodie's glaring mistakes were because he was quick enough and smart enough to get in position to make an apparently easy play that he goofed up.

Hamilton did not make these same glaring errors because he was so far out of position that Gio would have to be covering for him.


If the Flames trade Brodie will their next hole to be filled someone to play the big minutes with Gio?

Hard to overstate the importance of extending Gio's elite play at age 35.

If Brodie is to be traded he can go for a 1st and prospect at the trading deadline.... or if the Flames are solid contender at the deadline he can serve as their deadline addition.

I think the goal is to trade TJ, but I don't think it's because the brainthrust sees him as a negative on the roster. There's a lot to be said for TJs impact on Gio's game, yes, but I don't agree on how you've evaluated his goofs. He definitely went for an impressive play and came up short a few times but I don't think those are what people remember. Brodie routinely goofed on some pretty pedestrian plays and seemed to be thinking a step behind at times.

But you're ignoring the entire cap situation, which is the reason that Brodie's name comes up frequently. Andersson played great with Gio, and brings a little more stability to that line I think (especially this early in Andersson's career). I think the future of TJ as a Flame in the cap-era is coming to a close, so if you can get assets for TJ that makes the trade all the more worthwhile.

His salary, the need to recapture about that amout of salary, the Flames depth on D and a few options in his place that are the future of the Flames blue-line are all reasons TJ could be moved. His errors just make it difficult to argue that he's irreplaceable on the blueline. For as many TJ plays we can appreciate, he offers up a lot of costly mistakes that showed up on the scoreboard.

I think if the Wizard found a way to keep TJ a lot here would be on-board. But you could have read the thread to have known that was the general idea behind trading TJ.

[Vinny01]

I am starting to think Winnipeg might be one of our better trade partners if we put Hamonic on the table.

I think the Flames need to find cap space in a Frolik contract dump and Stone buyout/salary retention trade. They then need to use one of Brodie or Hamonic to make a hockey trade that improves the forward ranks. If they can’t find that deal with Brodie then maybe it is Hamonic? Winnipeg’s blueline has been decimated this summer especially the right side. Hamonic has longed to play for the franchise so the move has long term appeal for the Jets.

The Jets have some intriguing options up front. I don’t think we could get Ehlers but I wonder about Lowry or Roslivic? Jets could add a 2nd?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am starting to think Winnipeg might be one of our better trade partners if we put Hamonic on the table.

I think the Flames need to find cap space in a Frolik contract dump and Stone buyout/salary retention trade. They then need to use one of Brodie or Hamonic to make a hockey trade that improves the forward ranks. If they can’t find that deal with Brodie then maybe it is Hamonic? Winnipeg’s blueline has been decimated this summer especially the right side. Hamonic has longed to play for the franchise so the move has long term appeal for the Jets.

The Jets have some intriguing options up front. I don’t think we could get Ehlers but I wonder about Lowry or Roslivic? Jets could add a 2nd?

I have seen this mentioned a lot over the past several months. Is this just on the basis that Hamonic came from Manitoba, or is there actually something substantial to the assertion?

[dammage79]

I'd honestly go after Connor from WPG. I'm sure their prized RFA is Laine and they'll be a bit hamstrung with Connor. We could use a guy like that and I'd pay a hefty plus on top of one of the D men to get him. After Ehlers and Connor, not much interest in the Jets.