Off Season Trade rumours thread - Brodie, Frolik, Stone etc. Only

[Lanny_McDonald]

People rag on Jankowski but I think they are overlooking the fact that he plays the role of the defensively responsible member on his line. If you're playing with the likes that Jankowski plays with, you have to be defensively aware be the guy who is playing high cover. I have a feeling that has been drilled into his head and that is what responsibility he takes most seriously. I think there may be some coaching demands that makes him play the game he does. What is most funny about Janko, when he was in college a few of said that he was going to be Joel Otto type player. Well, that's exactly what we got.

[FBI]

Ahh it’s like a nice warm cozy blanket in here where we are talking about Janko in the Brodie,Frolik,Stone only thread. Brings me back to the good old days.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by New Era

People rag on Jankowski but I think they are overlooking the fact that he plays the role of the defensively responsible member on his line. If you're playing with the likes that Jankowski plays with, you have to be defensively aware be the guy who is playing high cover. I have a feeling that has been drilled into his head and that is what responsibility he takes most seriously. I think there may be some coaching demands that makes him play the game he does. What is most funny about Janko, when he was in college a few of said that he was going to be Joel Otto type player. Well, that's exactly what we got.

Jankowski has not yet shown the strong defensive play you’re talking about as a centre during even strength play.

Dude should be on the wing.

[Nelson]

Assuming Frolik is traded and moving Jankowski to the wing,

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett
Mangiapane - Ryan - Neal
Jankowski - Quine - Dube
LW - C - Czarnik

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Assuming Frolik is traded and moving Jankowski to the wing,

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett
Mangiapane - Ryan - Neal
Jankowski - Quine - Dube
LW - C - Czarnik

You might be right, but damn it’s depressing to field a worse team than last season.

Dube and Quine in
Frolik and Hathaway out

Ouch

[Johnhitbox]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

You might be right, but damn it’s depressing to field a worse team than last season.



Dube and Quine in

Frolik and Hathaway out



Ouch

Dube being the replacement for anybody at this point is just wrong. We still don’t know this guy.


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[Nelson]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

You might be right, but damn it’s depressing to field a worse team than last season.

Dube and Quine in
Frolik and Hathaway out

Ouch

Yeah, it especially hurts to lose Frolik, although I think the team will miss Hathaway's energy. Good for him getting that contract with Washington though. He must be ecstatic.

But I guess it's just the reality when you expect a player to get a raise from a $925K + bonuses to between $7M-$8M.

Also, I liked Quine and Dube when they played on the Flames last year. I thought Dube generated a lot without getting rewarded and Quine made some nice plays. I don't think that roster will be that much worse.

We don't really know how things are going to shake out until Treliving is done. He's got business to do. That lineup basically assumes Frolik and Brodie are traded for pieces that will not be in the lineup or non-forwards.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by New Era

People rag on Jankowski but I think they are overlooking the fact that he plays the role of the defensively responsible member on his line. If you're playing with the likes that Jankowski plays with, you have to be defensively aware be the guy who is playing high cover. I have a feeling that has been drilled into his head and that is what responsibility he takes most seriously. I think there may be some coaching demands that makes him play the game he does. What is most funny about Janko, when he was in college a few of said that he was going to be Joel Otto type player. Well, that's exactly what we got.

Didn’t he have some single digit corsi percentages in the playoffs?

That is Joel Otto style in the sense of having 10 fingers and 10 toes and wearing a helmet, I suppose.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

You might be right, but damn it’s depressing to field a worse team than last season.

Dube and Quine in
Frolik and Hathaway out

Ouch

The nature of a cap system.

But I think "ouch" is a stretch if that's the case. Any time you switch out bottom roster forwards you haven't effected your line up all that much. I like Frolik but he was clearly the third wheel in the top six when he played up the roster.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Jankowski has not yet shown the strong defensive play you’re talking about as a centre during even strength play.

Dude should be on the wing.

Bull####!!! What is the other option? Sam ####ing Bennett??? The guy with the worse +/- on the team? Sam Bennett can't check his hat when he goes out for drinks, let alone trying to play a defensive role in the NHL. Jankowski has provided a level of stability on his line that allows you throw them out there and know you aren't getting outscored when he is on the ice.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Didn’t he have some single digit corsi percentages in the playoffs?

That is Joel Otto style in the sense of having 10 fingers and 10 toes and wearing a helmet, I suppose.

Here we go. Five game sample versus an 82 game sample. #### the playoffs. The whole team shat the bed. The whole team. When Mike Smith and Sam Bennett are the standouts on your roster that means the whole team messed the sheets. Neither of those standouts would be on the Flames IMO (one isn't!), and I would call the playoffs the failure it is. To suggest the five game playoff set is an indicator of anything is gross ignorance of the performance of the team. I'm so sick of hearing about the playoffs meaning anything. They don't, and if Treliving believes they do and reacts based on those five games I want his head as a manager of the franchise.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by New Era

Bull####!!! What is the other option? Sam ####ing Bennett??? The guy with the worse +/- on the team? Sam Bennett can't check his hat when he goes out for drinks, let alone trying to play a defensive role in the NHL. Jankowski has provided a level of stability on his line that allows you throw them out there and know you aren't getting outscored when he is on the ice.







Here we go. Five game sample versus an 82 game sample. #### the playoffs. The whole team shat the bed. The whole team. When Mike Smith and Sam Bennett are the standouts on your roster that means the whole team messed the sheets. Neither of those standouts would be on the Flames IMO (one isn't!), and I would call the playoffs the failure it is. To suggest the five game playoff set is an indicator of anything is gross ignorance of the performance of the team. I'm so sick of hearing about the playoffs meaning anything. They don't, and if Treliving believes they do and reacts based on those five games I want his head as a manager of the franchise.

I’m not talking about Sam Bennett. But why do you think we were after Kadri? To improve upon a weakness of the team - which was our 3rd line centre, Mark Jankowski.

Fairly emotional response, NewEra. You seem to be over-defending Jankowski and marginalizing the criticism pointed towards him - when we know for a fact that the team has openly explored improving upon his roster spot. With Kadri inbound, Jankowski was either being moved to the wing or off the team entirely. Unless you think his presence would have shifted Backlund, Monahan or Ryan to the wing?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I’m not talking about Sam Bennett. But why do you think we were after Kadri? To improve upon a weakness of the team - which was our 3rd line centre, Mark Jankowski.

Fairly emotional response, NewEra. You seem to be over-defending Jankowski and marginalizing the criticism pointed towards him - when we know for a fact that the team has openly explored improving upon his roster spot. With Kadri inbound, Jankowski was either being moved to the wing or off the team entirely. Unless you think his presence would have shifted Backlund, Monahan or Ryan to the wing?

I don't see Jankowski as the third line center. Never have, especially this season. When the game is late, Ryan follows in as the third line center. That is Peters being Peters. No complaints, just recognizing the propensity of the coach to do what the coach does. We have no idea what the intent of having Kadri on the team was, except that he was a player the Flames liked and wanted on the team. Just like Zucker. Does bringing Zucker in mean the end to anyone? Nope. We have no idea what was in the mind of the coaching staff or management when it came to the lineup.

Maybe it is an emotional response. I'm just sick and tired of seeing Sam Bennett being promoted when he's proven time and time again that he can't perform any function worth a damn, then one of the best penalty killers in the NHL being shat upon because he's doing exactly what the coaching staff are demanding and playing his defensive role as assigned. This is exactly the way he played in college until being given a larger role. Give him the opportunity Bennett has, then judge accordingly.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Maybe it is an emotional response. I'm just sick and tired of seeing Sam Bennett being promoted when he's proven time and time again that he can't perform any function worth a damn, then one of the best penalty killers in the NHL being shat upon because he's doing exactly what the coaching staff are demanding and playing his defensive role as assigned. This is exactly the way he played in college until being given a larger role. Give him the opportunity Bennett has, then judge accordingly.

What opportunity?

Bennett had 13:17 of ice time per game. Jankowski 12:49. Forwards 9 and 10 on the team in total ice time.

Bennett isn't getting a magical leg up on Jankowski in how he's deployed.

Metrics amongst forwards ...

CF% Bennett 9th / Jankowski 10th
SF% Bennett 7th / Jankowski 10th
GF% Bennett 10th / Jankowski 12th (neither can finish)
xGF% Bennett 8th / Jankowski 10th
SCF% Bennett 6th / Jankowski 8th
HDCF% Bennett 2nd / Jankowski 10th

I'm not selling either player as the answer but to dump on one and prop the other is kind of strange especially when the crap player has your guy in every single metric.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What opportunity?

Bennett had 13:17 of ice time per game. Jankowski 12:49. Forwards 9 and 10 on the team in total ice time.

Bennett isn't getting a magical leg up on Jankowski in how he's deployed.

Metrics amongst forwards ...

CF% Bennett 9th / Jankowski 10th
SF% Bennett 7th / Jankowski 10th
GF% Bennett 10th / Jankowski 12th (neither can finish)
xGF% Bennett 8th / Jankowski 10th
SCF% Bennett 6th / Jankowski 8th
HDCF% Bennett 2nd / Jankowski 10th

I'm not selling either player as the answer but to dump on one and prop the other is kind of strange especially when the crap player has your guy in every single metric.

Since you brought it up..

Jankowski played 1:57 of his time on the PK per game. 8 pts during those minutes.

Bennett spent 1:32 of his time on the PP per game. 6 pts during those minutes.

Very different roles. I think its fair to say Jankowski was better at his role than Sam was at his.....minus the physicality of course.

[Strange Brew]

I feel pretty sure that Plan A was to move Brodie or Hamonic for forward help, before moving out Frolik for cap space. I don’t think Treliving is overly confident with what is currently in the system replacing Frolik and Hathaway. And he likely wasn’t that satisfied with the forward group even before.

I imagine that’s still the plan but the number of available dance partners isn’t too high anymore.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I feel pretty sure that Plan A was to move Brodie or Hamonic for forward help, before moving out Frolik for cap space.

Think both are involved in "Plan A", one isn't exclusive to the other. There isn't a lot in the Flames system but two players in Andrew Mangiapane and Dillion Dube are ready for the NHL/bigger roles.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Since you brought it up..

Jankowski played 1:57 of his time on the PK per game. 8 pts during those minutes.

Bennett spent 1:32 of his time on the PP per game. 6 pts during those minutes.

Very different roles. I think its fair to say Jankowski was better at his role than Sam was at his.....minus the physicality of course.

That is amazing PK work by Jankowski.

But it still remains that Bennett's 5 v 5 numbers are better across the board (and the percentages illustrate that he is significantly better according to some metrics), and 5 v 5 is the game situation that accounts for the vast majority of both players' ice time.

Now, at 5 v 5, you could argue that Jankowski is simply playing a more difficult position. That's why I would like to see Jankowski on the wing as Bingo suggested the other day. It might be that Jankowski, like Bennett, may not have the brain for centre.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I would like to keep Jankowski. He's one of the best PKers we have.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Rando

Think both are involved in "Plan A", one isn't exclusive to the other. There isn't a lot in the Flames system but two players in Andrew Mangiapane and Dillion Dube are ready for the NHL/bigger roles.

I would imagine the logic is moving out Frolik gives them a chance to use Bennett/Neal/Czarnik/Mangiapane/Dube in the top six depending on situational needs.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

You might be right, but damn it’s depressing to field a worse team than last season.

Dube and Quine in
Frolik and Hathaway out

Ouch

That lineup contends for the division and easily makes the playoffs...Plus the trade deadline, who knows what the playoff roster looks like.

All that being said I still see the Flames adding a forward this summer