[Rumour] Free agent courting period news and rumors

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Chonger

Its easier to make a move for a piece like stone when you have the space to sign him long term. Think Tre woulda pushed harder for that trade if he could have made the money work.

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I think it honestly came down to the one player reported. Treliving would have moved heaven and earth to ensure they locked up stone and had space to do so, IF they had a trade offer better than Vegas. They didn’t. Ottawa wanted Valimaki.

[Freeway]

Ottawa wanted Brannstrom or Valimaki. Vegas gave up Brannstrom, so they got Stone.

[CanadaMatt]

The OP was looking at a “sliding doors” moment where instead of signing Neal, the Flames signed Reeves instead. Given this scenario, the cap space crunch would be less intense, potentially allowing the Flames to have acquired Stone on a long term deal ...with the assumption that the Flames would have been willing to part with a bigger package for Stone (long term), rather than a short-term rental.

It was a hypothetical.

Then Jiri pops up and says we couldn’t have signed Stone because the asking price was too steep. The asking price was too steep because the acquisition of Stone could ONLY have been a rental (for the Flames) due to cap considerations. Even if the asking price for Stone was a conditional 7th, the Flames could not have signed Stone to a long term deal due to the cap crunch.

[Scroopy Noopers]

They 100% would have signed Stone to an 8 year deal.

You would have seen Brodie and Frolik out last weekend.

Ottawa was not sending Stone to Calgary for what Calgary was willing to TRADE.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

They 100% would have signed Stone to an 8 year deal.

Who?

The flames may need to part with Brodie and Frolik just to get Chucky, Bennett, two goalies and other smaller prices signed....

...another 9 million? Where does that cap space come from?

[TheScorpion]

Well, sure the Flames could've signed Stone. Absolutely. But then they would've been forced to go down the same avenue that Vegas has this offseason, meaning that, in addition to having to trade Frolik, they'd probably be forced to deal a number of Brodie, Hamonic, Ryan, and Mike Stone.

Right now, the Flames can probably manage to ice the same roster that finished 2nd in the NHL last year, minus maybe one piece. The alternative, made reality by acquiring Stone, would see a mass exodus of the depth that helped them stay so strong for the entirety of the regular season.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Well, sure the Flames could've signed Stone. Absolutely. But then they would've been forced to go down the same avenue that Vegas has this offseason, meaning that, in addition to having to trade Frolik, they'd probably be forced to deal a number of Brodie, Hamonic, Ryan, and Mike Stone.

Right now, the Flames can probably manage to ice the same roster that finished 2nd in the NHL last year, minus maybe one piece. The alternative, made reality by acquiring Stone, would see a mass exodus of the depth that helped them stay so strong for the entirety of the regular season.

Yeah exactly. That, plus the worth of the trade and you’ve practically given up a couple NHL lines for 1 player. But, players like that don’t come along often.

I’m still happy the Flames didn’t do it.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Who?

The flames may need to part with Brodie and Frolik just to get Chucky, Bennett, two goalies and other smaller prices signed....

...another 9 million? Where does that cap space come from?

He’s a playbook changing player. We would have seen a couple more players go that would have hurt. But he fits the Flames and Trelivings MO. If they could have got the trade they wanted, they would have shed appropriate salary.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

He’s a playbook changing player. We would have seen a couple more players go that would have hurt.

That’s right...but not in the hypothetical scenario the OP was suggesting where there was more cap space available . I’m so confused about what you and Jiri are talking about.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

That’s right...but not in the hypothetical scenario the OP was suggesting where there was more cap space available . I’m so confused about what you and Jiri are talking about.

That Neal isn’t relevant to everything wrong with the Flames.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Yeah exactly. That, plus the worth of the trade and you’ve practically given up a couple NHL lines for 1 player. But, players like that don’t come along often.

I’m still happy the Flames didn’t do it.

Yeah, I'm happy too. The initial disappointment really quickly washed out for me, because Vegas is now a team with pretty miserable depth. They have better high-end players than Calgary does up front, but their defense is calamitously worse and they have few avenues to improve it. Meanwhile, Calgary is a team with tremendous depth at almost every position, with the exception of goaltending and maybe right wing, depending on how you look at it.

Vegas' number-four defenseman is Nick Holden, and they might have to trade him to get under the cap. Meanwhile, Juuso Valimaki is the Flames' fifth- or sixth-best defenseman. Imagine that. And Calgary has a lot more flexibility than Vegas does.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

That Neal isn’t relevant to everything wrong with the Flames.

This last two pages are painful to read...two posters so desperate to defend a player they completely (and quite deliberately) derail the OP’s hypothetical scenario discussion.

I’m done with you /ignore

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

This last two pages are painful to read...two posters so desperate to defend a player they completely (and quite deliberately) derail the OP’s hypothetical scenario discussion.

I’m done with you /ignore

What are you on about? Haven't you seen how Vegas has been rapidly shedding salary in the last week because the Stone contract is about to kick in? That's exactly what Calgary would be doing right now if they had traded for him. Or am I missing your argument?

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

What are you on about? Haven't you seen how Vegas has been rapidly shedding salary in the last week because the Stone contract is about to kick in? That's exactly what Calgary would be doing right now if they had traded for him. Or am I missing your argument?

I agree we couldn’t have signed him and shouldn’t have...I’m with you

You are missing the OP’s argument

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

I agree we couldn’t have signed him and shouldn’t have...I’m with you

You are missing the OP’s argument

No... I'm not saying Calgary couldn't have signed Stone. They very much could have. There's a difference between the words could and should... I agree with you that they shouldn't have, but it is illogical and ignorant to suggest that they could not have dumped salary exactly how Vegas is currently doing it.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

No... I'm not saying Calgary couldn't have signed Stone. They very much could have. There's a difference between the words could and should... I agree with you that they shouldn't have, but it is illogical and ignorant to suggest that they could not have dumped salary exactly how Vegas is currently doing it.

Are you debating with me, because that’s not remotely close to anything I’ve been talking about for two pages

[Strange Brew]

Well Vegas is Vegas I guess.

It’s arguable the Flames don’t have the high end talent up front to compete for a championship and that talent isn’t in the system. So realistically you’ll have to trade for it and be prepared to pay big $’s in salary.

I’m not heartbroken about Stone but if the Flames are going to improve their talent up front, it will come at a high price and players like Stone don’t come available that often. I’m not of the opinion that swapping out your best forward for a different best forward will really move the needle so this was a chance to acquire an elite player without decimating your talent.

But I’m good with giving this core more time to show whether they can repeat this regular season and more importantly learn to win the playoffs. But I get the argument it was a missed opportunity.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Are you debating with me, because that’s not remotely close to anything I’ve been talking about for two pages

Then what are you talking about? I honestly can't tell. You seem to be at fault with the notion that "cap space wasn't an issue." So... you think cap space was an issue? But as I've said, I don't think cap space was an issue.

Am I completely off-base here?

[dammage79]

Man, I like that Treliving is being very pragmatic about things but holy hell the silence around the Flames (Talbot rumor aside) is tearing this place apart!

Really figured that Fro and a d man would have been shipped off already.

Honestly didnt think the waters would be so murky today in regards to the Flames cap issues. I mean there's a whole summer but you'd have to think that sorting out RFAs would have been done. Or at least the important ones.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Then what are you talking about? I honestly can't tell. You seem to be at fault with the notion that "cap space wasn't an issue." So... you think cap space was an issue? But as I've said, I don't think cap space was an issue.

Am I completely off-base here?

You don’t think cap space was an issue...but you’re glad we didn’t sign Stone because we’d have to shed too much salary (cap space), like Vegas is having to do?