[Trade] Canucks acquire JT Miller from Tampa for Mazanec, 3rd, and cond 1st

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

The Hamonic deal was made to try and shore up that problem, and it didn't work and not one was really shocked by it (except Flames fans...).

Exactly like how this trade is going to turn out. You've actually convinced me that they are comparable situations.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Exactly like how this trade is going to turn out. You've actually convinced me that they are comparable situations.

It very well could, I'm not saying that this trade is the cure for what ails the Canucks.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Again, if the Canucks some how regress that badly in two years, we have much bigger problems than this trade.

I've seen this quote a lot from the few Canucks fans who like thia trade and I don't understand it.


The Ottawa Senators have much bigger problems than giving the 4th overall to the Avalanche but that doesn't make the Duchene trade any better.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Nope. The Flames made the play-offs on pure luck the year before, with underlying numbers worse than most non-play-off teams. A smart GM realizes they were playing with house money and treats the roster like a non-play-off team. The Hamonic deal was made to try and shore up that problem, and it didn't work and not one was really shocked by it (except Flames fans...).

The Flames acquired Travis Hamonic in 2017—the same year they made the playoffs as the first wildcard. That season they were a top-ten team in possession metrics and middle-of-the-pack in goals scored and goals allowed.

Your memory about this is as hilariously bad as your take on Hamonic.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I've seen this quote a lot from the few Canucks fans who like thia trade and I don't understand it.


The Ottawa Senators have much bigger problems than giving the 4th overall to the Avalanche but that doesn't make the Duchene trade any better.

It's more the regression from being in a play-off race into early March with a promising young core of players to last place and regarded as a burning tire fire with no direction and an insane owner.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Your memory about this is as hilariously bad as your take on Hamonic.

Hah! I'm thinking of the Hamilton trade, not the Hamonic trade as far as timing. My take on Hamonic is different than my take on the Hamonic trade though, you silly billy.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

The Ottawa Senators have much bigger problems than giving the 4th overall to the Avalanche but that doesn't make the Duchene trade any better.

If this turns out with the Canucks losing a top 5 pick, it will absolutely be as bad as the Duchene deal. JT Miller isn't going to bail on them in a year, but on the other hand, he's not as good a player as Duchene. Even top 10, and it's pretty bad.

They're just gambling that it won't be - that they'll be in the playoffs in at least one of the next two years (or at least on the bubble). Benning was probably going to make that push regardless because his contract is up. It's basically a matter of injuries for the Canucks, but they've become a pretty injury-prone team... I just looked, and they had 37 different skaters and 5 different goalies suit up for them last season. Yikes. Horvat is the only guy to play 82 games last year, and Stecher is their only defenseman to play 70 or more.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Barca

Core Pieces: Demko, Hughes, Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson
Support cast: Virtanen, MacEwen, Gaudette, Goldobin
Prospects: Podkolzin, Hoglander, Juolevi, Madden, Rathbone, DiPietro, Karlsson.

the biggest area of weakness is obviously defence which is a work in progress, but the Canucks signed a couple college free agents late last season (Teves, Rafferty and Eliot).

this trade for Miller is to surround the young guys with some veterans that fits the teams age range going forward.

guys like Beartschi (26) Miller (26) Pearson (26) Granlund (25) Spooner (26)

Imo, the Canucks are doing a good rebuild and like JB said, this trade accelerates the process and help develop the core pieces get better.

You cant continue to draft young kids and plug them in the lineup like EDM has done with Puljuarvi and expect to get better. Thats where the Canucks and Oilers differ imo we have a better support cast in place.

if only we could get out of the Eriksson and Sutter contracts

I understand that, as a fan of the team, you're going to look at young players with an optimistic eye. And I agree that you can't do what Edmonton has done and just keep throwing kids into the deep end. But your projections are pretty sketchy.

Calling Demko a core piece is a giant stretch at best. Goalies are witches. Demko has played 10 NHL games and has a 2.92 GAA. Hell, Gillies has played 12 games and has a 2.71 GAA, and I don't think anyone is calling him a 'core piece'.

And calling Hughes a core piece just because he was drafted in the top 10 is also a big stretch. There is no guarantee at all with defensemen - especially small ones. We often see young offensive defensemen put up decent points, early in their careers, but it takes years for them to become a top pairing guy, if they ever do (and that is what a core piece is).

So two of your 5 core pieces are complete wildcards at this point.

Then there is the support cast, which is nothing close to being where it needs to be. Backlund and Hamonic are examples of good support pieces. Hanafin is entering that phase, 5 years into his career. None of the players you listed are in that class.

And prospects are prospects. Hughes and Demko should be on that list, not on the core list.

Most importantly (which you have touched on) is the lack of D depth. A team needs 4 or 5 solid Dmen to be playoff contenders, and 8 NHL defensemen in order to be competitive, and the Nucks are still miles from that. If Hughes and Juolevi (or a couple of the other prospects) work out, you could have the makings of a solid D core in 3 years or so. If things go well. Until then...

So trading 1st rounders for support pieces like Miller, at this point, is a mistake IMO. Especially when there will be similarly useful guys in free agency, that don't cost picks.

[Dajazz]

Can’t believe they are spending first rounders as a rebuilding, non play off team. Yes, they are likely to improve, but they were a tire fire last year. There’s a good chance that pick is in lottery territory. For a guy that scored 13 goals. If he hits 25 goals consistently it might just turn out alright, but that’s a bet I wouldn’t take.

Then again, it’s Dim Jim.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Nope. The Flames made the play-offs on pure luck the year before, with underlying numbers worse than most non-play-off teams. A smart GM realizes they were playing with house money and treats the roster like a non-play-off team. The Hamonic deal was made to try and shore up that problem, and it didn't work and not one was really shocked by it (except Flames fans...).

As Textcritic illustrated you are incorrect here as you have mixed up 2014/15 with 2016/17. Nice try though.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

As Textcritic illustrated you are incorrect here as you have mixed up 2014/15 with 2016/17. Nice try though.

So why'd you have to reply then?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

So why'd you have to reply then?

Why not? Probably a good chance Miller has a better 1st season with the Canucks than Hamonic did in his first season with the Flames but the actual team scenario's at the time of the trades were not comparable at all. I think the Canucks can live with this trade even if they do give up a lottery pick just as the Flames survived giving up a lottery pick but if they double down and pay Tyler Myers $$$ people are probably going to get fired and maybe that's a good thing if you are a Canucks fan.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

It's more the regression from being in a play-off race into early March with a promising young core of players to last place and regarded as a burning tire fire with no direction and an insane owner.

I can't wait to see if they ever make a movie about that...

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Why not? Probably a good chance Miller has a better 1st season with the Canucks than Hamonic did in his first season with the Flames but the actual team scenario's at the time of the trades were not comparable at all. I think the Canucks can live with this trade even if they do give up a lottery pick just as the Flames survived giving up a lottery pick but if they double down and pay Tyler Myers $$$ people are probably going to get fired and maybe that's a good thing if you are a Canucks fan.

Well, we agree on the Myers thing. Anything more than 6 million is insane. Even 6 is a gross number.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Nope. The Flames made the play-offs on pure luck the year before, with underlying numbers worse than most non-play-off teams. A smart GM realizes they were playing with house money and treats the roster like a non-play-off team. The Hamonic deal was made to try and shore up that problem, and it didn't work and not one was really shocked by it (except Flames fans...).

Think you are mixing up the seasons though.

We made the playoffs in 14/15 with horrible underlying numbers.

In 16/17 we were 10th in the league in Corsi For and middle of the pack for most of our underlying numbers.

We had a hole on our PK and on the right side of our defense and the trade was made to fix that. At the time we had made the playoffs 2 out of 3 seasons - with the underlying numbers improving.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Any signing of Tyler Myers should get you fired, I don't care who you are.



You would literally be better off calling someone up from the AHL. At least you'd be paying them less money.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by supermatt18

think you are mixing up the seasons though.

We made the playoffs in 14/15 with horrible underlying numbers.

In 16/17 we were 10th in the league in corsi for and middle of the pack for most of our underlying numbers.

We had a hole on our pk and on the right side of our defense and the trade was made to fix that. At the time we had made the playoffs 2 out of 3 seasons - with the underlying numbers improving.

ಠ_ಠ

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

I’m generally ok with the value here but I wouldn’t have done it if I’m the canucks unless it was completely lottery protected (ie. maybe the condition that could have worked would be it turning into two early second round picks 2020 and 2021 if they weren’t in the playoffs this year...

Too much parity in the NHL right now, and Vancouver still has a ways to go to be a real force that this pick really is at risk of being a lottery pick. That’s scary when acquiring a non franchise player already eating up some cap.

Somehow lottery protecting the pick even if it's deferred would be a good move by the Canucks, but probably much harder to get the deal done and Benning doesn't really need to worry.

If he misses the playoffs this year, he may or may not be fine depending on the circumstances (i.e. if young players are playing well, noticeable improvement etc.). But if he still misses the playoffs in the 2020-2021 season, especially if they are in a 'lottery' position, then there's no chance of him keeping his job anyways. He'd have missed the playoffs six years in a row, his one playoff appearance with the team would be a First Round loss against a divisional rival in his first year when the team was far more Gillis' doing than his.

This is where it can be exciting to be a divisional rival if the Canucks continue to be mediocre. Benning's shelf life is already coming to an end, he knows it, he needs to do something to make a big change and that's how you end up with Tyler Myers making 7M for the next 7 years

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Hah! I'm thinking of the Hamilton trade, not the Hamonic trade as far as timing. My take on Hamonic is different than my take on the Hamonic trade though, you silly billy.

Hamilton trade is nothing like this trade either though.

Hamilton trade we knew what pick we were going to give up - the 15th overall pick.

In retrospect it did suck to miss out on Conner/Barzal/Chabot but that was more due to other teams making mistakes before Pick 15.

And I didn't like giving up a future 1st when we made the Hamonic deal either for the same reason I don't like the Canucks doing it.

[Jore]

these Myers to Vancouver rumours remind me of how I felt when all those Brouwer to the Flames rumours wouldn't go away. This time, I'm really enjoying it. hoping for the $8 mil aav/7 year payout

[dino7c]

Teams are paying to give away high cap hit players and Vancouver decides to pay a first for one lol