[Rumour] Dreger: Whispers of the Flames trying to extend Hamonic

[Toonage]

What I really took from that thread is Roger Millions didn't know jack.

[Rando]

One wonder how those praising the Bruins now acted when they missed the playoffs two years, 2015 and 2016, cries of blow them up? Maybe there is a historian out there. I don't know. Good on them for keeping the core and re-tooling.

More bullets in the chamber sure but despite drafting 13th 14th and 15th in a row in 2015 they didn't draft the guys who went 16th 17th and 18th, Matt Barzel, Kyle Connor and Thomas Chabot, three emerging stars. Miss miss miss.

And for all the talk about how to build a team, all the derisive comments, the Blues didn't have much home grown talent on the roster. St. Louius spent major draft picks (Scheen, O'Reily) and older free agent dollars (Bozak) to do it.

Curious.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Rando

One wonder how those praising the Bruins now acted when they missed the playoffs two years, 2015 and 2016, cries of blow them up? Maybe there is a historian out there. I don't know. Good on them for keeping the core and re-tooling.

More bullets in the chamber sure but despite drafting 13th 14th and 15th in a row in 2015 they didn't draft the guys who went 16th 17th and 18th, Matt Barzel, Kyle Connor and Thomas Chabot, three emerging stars. Miss miss miss.

And for all the talk about how to build a team, all the derisive comments, the Blues didn't have much home grown talent on the roster. St. Louius spent major draft picks (Scheen, O'Reily) and older free agent dollars (Bozak) to do it.

Curious.

Schwartz, Tarasenko, Perron, Pietrangelo, Fabbri and Robert Thomas are all 1st round draft picks.

Barbashev, Jake Allen and Edmundson are 2nd round picks.

Parayko and Binnington are 3rd round picks.

Sammy Blais, 6th round pick.

lol.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rando

One wonder how those praising the Bruins now acted when they missed the playoffs two years, 2015 and 2016, cries of blow them up? Maybe there is a historian out there. I don't know. Good on them for keeping the core and re-tooling.

More bullets in the chamber sure but despite drafting 13th 14th and 15th in a row in 2015 they didn't draft the guys who went 16th 17th and 18th, Matt Barzel, Kyle Connor and Thomas Chabot, three emerging stars. Miss miss miss.

And for all the talk about how to build a team, all the derisive comments, the Blues didn't have much home grown talent on the roster. St. Louius spent major draft picks (Scheen, O'Reily) and older free agent dollars (Bozak) to do it.

Curious.

It was like a lot of great teams - a real mix. Draft picks (Tarasenko/Petreangelo/Parayko), trades (ROR, Schenn, Jaybo), signings (Bozak, Perron, Maroon). And it took an "out of nowhere" emergence of a goalie who'd toiled for quite a while in the minors, with only 13 prior minutes in the NHL before this December.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Schwartz, Tarasenko, Perron, Pietrangelo, Fabbri and Robert Thomas are all 1st round draft picks.

Barbashev, Jake Allen and Edmundson are 2nd round picks.

Parayko and Binnington are 3rd round picks.

Sammy Blais, 6th round pick.

lol.

St.Louis has a good mix:

Homegrown:14
Traded for: 7
Signed as UFA:3

Compared to the Flames:

Homegrown:15
Traded for: 6
Signed as UFA:5

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

.

lol.

I'm at a loss why people engage you. Good reply turned childish.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It was like a lot of great teams - a real mix. Draft picks (Tarasenko/Petreangelo/Parayko), trades (ROR, Schenn, Jaybo), signings (Bozak, Perron, Maroon). And it took an "out of nowhere" emergence of a goalie who'd toiled for quite a while in the minors, with only 13 prior minutes in the NHL before this December.

Yeah, it was actually more than I thought. Forgot Perron was drafted by them, thought Binnington was a college signing (oops) and some later picks playing smaller roles boosted the numbers.

Point still stands, the Blues used a large number of picks (good ones) to bolster their roster along with UFA signings (bozak) before they were contenders. It's not the formula some are touting.

[Robbob]

Does Perron count as homegrown considering he played a number of season on other teams before returning to STL for a third stint.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by bax

St.Louis has a good mix:

Homegrown:14
Traded for: 7
Signed as UFA:3

Compared to the Flames:

Homegrown:15
Traded for: 6
Signed as UFA:5

Seems pretty close to me. Add in treliving has done pretty good added good players with the picks he has moved imo he has done very well with his picks. Whether it's a trade or drafted he has added alot.

Also factor in age, years in nhl and playoff experience of the key players each team that favors the blues. We need to remember the age of guys like tkachuk Johnny and Monahan vs o'Reilly tarasenko Schwartz and schenn favours blues for players in prime with years experience

Flames are on the right track. This is a big off season for Brad after a good one last off season to move a team from near the bottom in standings to the top

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Does Perron count as homegrown considering he played for seven season on 5 other teams before returning to STL.

He's in the UFA category, flat out. Yes he was drafted and developed by the Blues but he's not part of their current roster due to the draft, he's there because he was a free agent signing.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Does Perron count as homegrown considering he played a number of season on other teams before returning to STL for a third stint.

No

[dino7c]

everyone will now try and emulate the Blues...who were half an inch away from losing in the 2nd round.

that's hockey

Just get the best players possible and see what happens

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

everyone will now try and emulate the Blues...who were half an inch away from losing in the 2nd round.

that's hockey

Just get the best players possible and see what happens

The obvious takeaway for the Flames is that we need have a better mix of skill and grittiness. Boston and St.Louis are very similar that way. Flames are very lacking in size and checking ability.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf_Phan

The obvious takeaway for the Flames is that we need have a better mix of skill and grittiness. Boston and St.Louis are very similar that way. Flames are very lacking in size and checking ability.

I posted a link in another thread which showed that while the Flames are among the smaller/lighter teams in the NHL on average, they are also virtually identical to the Boston Bruins: slightly taller, and slightly lighter (which is especially significant considering that Zdeno Chara is 6'9" tall and weighs 250 lbs.)

All that to say that I don't believe size is an issue. I can agree that the Flames lack "checking ability" insofar as the problem the team had the playoffs was the seeming inability to play hard: to be hard on pucks, hard on the forecheck, and to fight through traffic.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I posted a link in another thread which showed that while the Flames are among the smaller/lighter teams in the NHL on average, they are also virtually identical to the Boston Bruins: slightly taller, and slightly lighter (which is especially significant considering that Zdeno Chara is 6'9" tall and weighs 250 lbs.)

All that to say that I don't believe size is an issue. I can agree that the Flames lack "checking ability" insofar as the problem the team had the playoffs was the seeming inability to play hard: to be hard on pucks, hard on the forecheck, and to fight through traffic.

One thing....a couple of the Flames bigger players, just dont play like they have size though.

Specifically Monahan and Jankowski...and Neal did nothing in that department either, on top of his no show in the offensive zone.

Its not just having size, its using it. The Bruins do it exceptionally well...the Flames may be the worst in hockey at playing the heavy game.

[getbak]

Because not every player contributes the same amount to a team, I thought I'd look at the contributions from the different types of players...


FLAMES 2018-19 Regular Season

• Drafted: 12 players // 756 GP | 176 G | 270 A | 446 P
• Undrafted: 3 players // 158 GP | 28 G | 65 A | 93 P
• Signed: 6 players // 280 GP | 45 G | 69 A | 114 P
• Traded: 8 players // 282 GP | 40 G | 98 A | 138 P

BLUES 2018-19 Regular Season

• Drafted: 13 players // 717 GP | 112 G | 186 A | 298 P
• Signed: 6 players // 231 GP | 47 G | 69 A | 116 P
• Traded: 11 players // 528 GP | 85 G | 161 A | 246 P

These numbers don't include goalies, so you could add another 3 assists under the Traded column for the Flames for Smith. Rittich didn't have any points, nor did any of the Blues' goalies.

For the goalies, the Flames split their season almost evenly between an Undrafted player and a Traded player. The Blues mostly played their 2 drafted goalies the entire season, but free agent signing, Chad Johnson did play 491 total minutes in 10 games played.

----------


The Flames' 289 total goals were the second-most league-wide. 70.6% of the Flames' goals this season were scored by a "homegrown" player. 15.6% were scored by a player who signed as a veteran free agent. 13.8% were scored by a player acquired in a trade.


The Blues' 244 total goals were the 15th-most league-wide. 45.9% of the Blues' goals this season were scored by a "homegrown" player. 19.3% were scored by a player who signed as a veteran free agent. 34.8% were scored by a player acquired in a trade.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by transplant99

One thing....a couple of the Flames bigger players, just dont play like they have size though.

Specifically Monahan and Jankowski...and Neal did nothing in that department either, on top of his no show in the offensive zone.

Its not just having size, its using it. The Bruins do it exceptionally well...the Flames may be the worst in hockey at playing the heavy game.

Yes and no. I agree that the problem was "using it" insofar as most of the Flames players did not play with the requisite desperation needed to win. The Cup Finals were in a word "frenetic." It was like the players on both teams were on a knife's edge of control because of how hard they were playing.

But I still don't think it has anything to do with size. Smaller players like Marchand, Schwartz and Perron were able to find success by playing like their lives depended on it—THAT's what we never saw from any of the Flames players except Mike Smith and maybe Sam Bennett.

Fortunately, I think this is a correctable issue—and far more easily overcome than a skill deficiency.

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Lack of mental toughness / determination is not a correctable issue - unless you include the option of trading mentally soft players.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf_Phan

Lack of mental toughness / determination is not a correctable issue - unless you include the option of trading mentally soft players.

Of course it is. It’s no more difficult to correct than foot speed.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by getbak

Because not every player contributes the same amount to a team, I thought I'd look at the contributions from the different types of players...

Digging into the drafted numbers a little more...

FLAMES

• 1st Round Picks: 6 players // 409 GP | 117 G | 151 A | 268 P
• 2nd Round Picks: 3 players // 142 GP | 6 G | 26 A | 32 P
• 3rd+ Round Picks: 3 players // 205 GP | 53 G | 93 A | 146 P

BLUES

• 1st Round Picks: 6 players // 338 GP | 68 G | 118 A | 186 P
• 2nd Round Picks: 4 players // 238 GP | 29 G | 46 A | 75 P
• 3rd+ Round Picks: 3 players // 141 GP | 15 G | 22 A | 37 P

The Blues numbers don't include Perron since he hasn't been with them continuously since being drafted. Even if he is included, the Blues' first rounders trail the Flames' in every category (395 GP | 91 G | 141 A | 232 P), even with one extra player.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf_Phan

Lack of mental toughness / determination is not a correctable issue...

What makes you think so?