[Rumour] McKenzie: Hearing the Flames are very intent on moving one of Hamonic or Brodie

[Flash Walken]

Another middle of the road lacklustre point producer isn't going to do it.

I like Turris as a player but he's going to be 30 to start the season and his 4 years removed from scoring 60 points.

The team doesn't need another Backlund, having Backlund as the #2 guy is the whole problem.

The flames need a 75+ point centre. Spending assets on anything less is just wasting assets at this point.

[neo45]

Only bring in Turris if Neal is in the package going the other way

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Another middle of the road lacklustre point producer isn't going to do it.

I like Turris as a player but he's going to be 30 to start the season and his 4 years removed from scoring 60 points.

The team doesn't need another Backlund, having Backlund as the #2 guy is the whole problem.

The flames need a 75+ point centre. Spending assets on anything less is just wasting assets at this point.

I'd be okay with a young 50 point centre with real potential to become that 75+ point centre (a la Lindholm), but that isn't Turris.

[Rando]

Kadri isn't a 70 point player but can easily return to a 30 goal 60 point one. With his physical game, two-way ability that's just as good.

Wouldn't mind Gaudreau and Monahan split up if we get Kadri to have one of Tkachuk and Kadri on each top line.

Gaudreau - Kadri - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Monahan - xxx

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I'd be okay with a young 50 point centre with real potential to become that 75+ point centre (a la Lindholm), but that isn't Turris.

There are damned few young 50 point centres. There's a bunch with more (who are probably untouchable) and a bunch with less (who are pretty risky). You are left with guys like Strome, Athanasou, Dubois. I don't see any of those guys being freed up.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Another middle of the road lacklustre point producer isn't going to do it.

I like Turris as a player but he's going to be 30 to start the season and his 4 years removed from scoring 60 points.

The team doesn't need another Backlund, having Backlund as the #2 guy is the whole problem.

The flames need a 75+ point centre. Spending assets on anything less is just wasting assets at this point.

McDavid
Draisaitl (Questionable he's a C)
Crosby
Mackinnon
Stamkos
Barkov
Point
Tavares
Giroux (Played wing with Couturier)
Scheifele
Aho
Monahan
Eichel
Toews
Seguin
Bergeron
Courturier

Those were your 75 point centers last season and quite frankly you're not acquiring one of those guys unless you are trading one of Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau (and likely adding to them).

The only UFA that's even close to that is Duchene as a center and I don't think he will fit in our cap structure. The more realistic option is that you need to add another middle 6 center in that 50 point range.

Monahan - last half of the season was poor but is still a top point producing center, needs to work on skating.

Backlund - fine as a defensive 2/3 center

Jankowski - Not a top 9 center on a cup contender IMO

Ryan - fine as a 4th line center that can move up the line up as required.

So the goal should be to upgrade on Jankowski with a guy that can provide offense while being defensively responsible and driving play.

Guys that may be available that fit that bill:

- Nazim Kadri
- Kevin Hayes
- Tyler Johnson
- Ryan Dzingel
- Adam Henrique
- Cody Eakin
- Marcus Johansson

And even then some of those guys are more C/W hybrids then pure play driving center ice men.

[pepper24]

Gio's best seasons have been paired with Brodie. I guess we have young dmen that can fill that some of that void but would worry about Gio's production falling off. Not sure if Anderson is yet Brodie or Hamilton level.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

McDavid
Draisaitl (Questionable he's a C)
Crosby
Mackinnon
Stamkos
Barkov
Point
Tavares
Giroux (Played wing with Couturier)
Scheifele
Aho
Monahan
Eichel
Toews
Seguin
Bergeron
Courturier

Those were your 75 point centers last season and quite frankly you're not acquiring one of those guys unless you are trading one of Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau (and likely adding to them).

The only UFA that's even close to that is Duchene as a center and I don't think he will fit in our cap structure. The more realistic option is that you need to add another middle 6 center in that 50 point range.

Monahan - last half of the season was poor but is still a top point producing center, needs to work on skating.

Backlund - fine as a defensive 2/3 center

Jankowski - Not a top 9 center on a cup contender IMO

Ryan - fine as a 4th line center that can move up the line up as required.

So the goal should be to upgrade on Jankowski with a guy that can provide offense while being defensively responsible and driving play.

IMO, this is a problem with discussing team building on this board. We all acknowledge Monahan has room for improvement, that offensively he's a top line centre but defensively is severely lacking. Then you're qualifying Backlund as a 2/3, so we both understand what you're saying is he's not a legit 2nd line centre for a contending team. So right away, the flames top 2 centres aren't good enough, but we kind of gloss over that to move onto the next part of the conversation. That's a problem in my opinion.

I agree legit top 6 centres are tough to acquire which is why I think the Flames will end up acquiring a winger and why they were attached to a Kessel rumour for the second time in 4 years. I think if you have a strong enough contingent of wingers you can turn middling centres into top end centres. Backlund is probably a 60 point player if he's playing between Tkachuk and Kessel for example.

Personally, I think Getzlaf is the solution but he'd have to want to leave Anaheim which I don't think will happen.

There's also some guys missing from your list because they didn't score 75 last year because they didn't play enough games, and for some reason O'Reilly isn't on your list either after scoring 77 points, who happened to available last offseason.

It's the capacity to score 75+ points, not necessarily whether they did it in the last calendar year. Krejci, Couture, Larkin, Hertl, Pavelski, Zabinejad, Kopitar etc. Max Domi surprised us all with 72 points.

Those players are out there and they are relatively numerous. The acquisition cost is high, but it's not like the Flames haven't been wheeling out picks for years.

A top 6 of:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - O'Reilly - whoever

is a ####load better than:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - whoever

[Ullr]

Originally Posted by Rando

Kadri isn't a 70 point player but can easily return to a 30 goal 60 point one. With his physical game, two-way ability that's just as good.

Wouldn't mind Gaudreau and Monahan split up if we get Kadri to have one of Tkachuk and Kadri on each top line.

Gaudreau - Kadri - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Monahan - xxx

Kadri can barely center the 3rd line for the Leafs. Why on earth would he be our number 1 center?? Also do you not remember how pretty much the entire Calgary fanbase hates Kadri because of his shenanigans with Gio and his temper issues.

This post brought me back to Calgarypuck for the first time this summer to say HARD PASS.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Ullr

Kadri can barely center the 3rd line for the Leafs. Why on earth would he be our number 1 center?? Also do you not remember how pretty much the entire Calgary fanbase hates Kadri because of his shenanigans with Gio and his temper issues.

This post brought me back to Calgarypuck for the first time this summer to say HARD PASS.

Righthanded winger Kapanen should be the target out of TO.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Ullr

Kadri can barely center the 3rd line for the Leafs. Why on earth would he be our number 1 center?? Also do you not remember how pretty much the entire Calgary fanbase hates Kadri because of his shenanigans with Gio and his temper issues.

This post brought me back to Calgarypuck for the first time this summer to say HARD PASS.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Ullr

Kadri can barely center the 3rd line for the Leafs. Why on earth would he be our number 1 center?

Kadri played behind Tavaras and Matthews, two stars in the NHL. Your numbers dip when you give up ice time to those two. Despite that and a poor shooting percentage that's far below his career average he still managed just shy of twenty goals and over 40 points. To me that's a guy primed for a return to form. You add in his physical game and two-way play and he ticks a lot of boxes for this Flames team.

And okay, don't call him "our number 1 center" then. Is this better?

Tkachuk - Monahan - Lindholm
Gaudreau - Kadri - xxx

Satisfied? Number two now

Also do you not remember how pretty much the entire Calgary fanbase hates Kadri because of his shenanigans with Gio and his temper issues.

Couldn't care less about our fanbase hating him. The temper is an issue but this team needs more players that need to be reigned in than have to be dragged into the fight.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by FlameX

Why no just trade both

Injuries are the reason you don’t trade both.

Easy in the summer to assume our roster is healthy but in reality teams build depth charts for potential injuries.

It’s a mistake as a fan to look at our depth chart assuming everyone will be healthy, what we should be doing is imagining how the depth looks if two of the top 6 defencemen are injured.

[BrennyBaller]

Originally Posted by Rando

Kadri played behind Tavaras and Stamkos, two stars in the NHL.

Stamkos plays on the Leafs? Must've missed that one

[theslymonkey]

The #2C that the Flames are looking for is playing 1RW. They don't need to blow their depth on another center. If they are going to move major pieces, it should be for a 1RW who can score and be defensively responsible... Like Mark Stone

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Rando

Kadri played behind Tavaras and Stamkos, two stars in the NHL.

I must be getting old, I thought Stamkos was playing with Tampa Bay.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Injuries are the reason you don’t trade both.

Easy in the summer to assume our roster is healthy but in reality teams build depth charts for potential injuries.

It’s a mistake as a fan to look at our depth chart assuming everyone will be healthy, what we should be doing is imagining how the depth looks if two of the top 6 defencemen are injured.

Sans Hammer and Brodie, the Flames have

Gio-Andersson
Valimaki-Hanifin
Kylington-Stone
Prout/Fantenberg/replacement

Those four middle defensemen all have extremely high ceilings. They can all skate and move the puck. But they're green. Not as green as they would've been before a 1st place season, but environmentally friendly all the same.

You can't just remove nearly 1,200 NHL games of experience from your blue line and have it not impact you.

However, the concerns about the centre ice position are well founded. Trading Brodie and Hamonic frees up nearly $8M in cap room. If they go down that road, they should be all in on Matt Duchene.

Gaudreau-Duchene-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Monahan-Jankowski
Bennett-Backlund-Neal
Mangiapane-Ryan-Dube/Hathaway

It's worth assuming Frolik is gone at the draft.

[Harry Lime]

I think that the Flames number one center is Lindholm. After one year coaching here, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Peters agrees.

Concentration should 100 percent be on RW.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

McDavid
Draisaitl (Questionable he's a C)
Crosby
Mackinnon
Stamkos
Barkov
Point
Tavares
Giroux (Played wing with Couturier)
Scheifele
Aho
Monahan
Eichel
Toews
Seguin
Bergeron
Courturier

Those were your 75 point centers last season and quite frankly you're not acquiring one of those guys unless you are trading one of Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau (and likely adding to them).

The only UFA that's even close to that is Duchene as a center and I don't think he will fit in our cap structure. The more realistic option is that you need to add another middle 6 center in that 50 point range.

Monahan - last half of the season was poor but is still a top point producing center, needs to work on skating.

Backlund - fine as a defensive 2/3 center

Jankowski - Not a top 9 center on a cup contender IMO

Ryan - fine as a 4th line center that can move up the line up as required.

So the goal should be to upgrade on Jankowski with a guy that can provide offense while being defensively responsible and driving play.

Guys that may be available that fit that bill:

- Nazim Kadri
- Kevin Hayes
- Tyler Johnson
- Ryan Dzingel
- Adam Henrique
- Cody Eakin
- Marcus Johansson

And even then some of those guys are more C/W hybrids then pure play driving center ice men.

Sure is a shame that Treliving didn't get off his wallet when O'Reilly was made available last off season by an eastern team who preferred to put O'Reilly out in the west somewhere. Would have came with the added bonus of not singing Neal too, because with ROR's cap hit added that wouldn't have been an option.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

IMO, this is a problem with discussing team building on this board. We all acknowledge Monahan has room for improvement, that offensively he's a top line centre but defensively is severely lacking. Then you're qualifying Backlund as a 2/3, so we both understand what you're saying is he's not a legit 2nd line centre for a contending team. So right away, the flames top 2 centres aren't good enough, but we kind of gloss over that to move onto the next part of the conversation. That's a problem in my opinion.

I agree legit top 6 centres are tough to acquire which is why I think the Flames will end up acquiring a winger and why they were attached to a Kessel rumour for the second time in 4 years. I think if you have a strong enough contingent of wingers you can turn middling centres into top end centres. Backlund is probably a 60 point player if he's playing between Tkachuk and Kessel for example.

Personally, I think Getzlaf is the solution but he'd have to want to leave Anaheim which I don't think will happen.

There's also some guys missing from your list because they didn't score 75 last year because they didn't play enough games, and for some reason O'Reilly isn't on your list either after scoring 77 points, who happened to available last offseason.

It's the capacity to score 75+ points, not necessarily whether they did it in the last calendar year. Krejci, Couture, Larkin, Hertl, Pavelski, Zabinejad, Kopitar etc. Max Domi surprised us all with 72 points.

Those players are out there and they are relatively numerous. The acquisition cost is high, but it's not like the Flames haven't been wheeling out picks for years.

A top 6 of:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - O'Reilly - whoever

is a ####load better than:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - whoever

Thing is I actually agree with your point - a better center is required and preferably an improvement on Monahan but I'm just not sure it's a realistic opportunity this off season.

O'Reilly looks great now but going into last offseason there were question marks. He had never had over 64 points, he was a strong 200ft player but for whatever reason his teams always underperformed. Based on the cost of acquisition though the Flames probably should have been more involved in that one. And salary is fine because trading for O'Reilly likely means you don't sign Ryan/Neal - Janko is your 4th line C.

And even on your point on Max Domi - the Habs didn't trade for a 75 point player they traded for a younger guy with potential and he turned into a 72 point player for them.

Outside of improving 3C with a guy that I listed above, going the "Domi" route might actually be the best course of action for the Flames - target a guy similar to Lindholm/Domi that has great pedigree but maybe has underachieved in his current situation.

Somebody like Dylan Strome would have been a good example and that seems to have worked out for Chicago.

Other examples would be:

Pavel Zacha - maybe Devils move on with Hughes on the way in, Hischer already there, and Zajac as their veteran presence.

Robby Fabbri - This one interests me a lot. Looked like a sure star prior to concussion issues, seems to have been surpassed in the Blues organization.

Tyson Jost - Hasn't really lived up to pre-draft billing in Colorado...could be an interesting target with Avs coveting d-men.

Alexander Wennberg - really fell out of favour in Columbus...we all know how much the Flames seem to love 2013 draft picks.