Critical Amber Alert

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

At what point do we not just let the complainers complain? They want it to respect DND modes, or be able to shut it off completely when they feel like it... and we’re to expect that these people will actually continue receiving the alert if you give them the option not to? Really? Right now the alert can not be disabled on iPhone, and cannot be disabled on Android unless you dig into boot mode (which is not something the majority is going to easily accomplish on their phone), and we’re expecting the effectiveness of the amber alerts is actually going to go up if you let people turn them off?

Logic doesn’t check out here.

This is it right here. They have the right to complain and add their two cents to the debate (and we should listen in good faith and explore improvements) but ultimately it appears the worst thing you could do is give people the option to opt out.

Amber alerts are annoying at the wrong time (I mean that genuinely, not being snarky) but they happen what, 4 or 5 times a year? It's really not a huge issue and the polls show that.

You have to remember that online the annoyed side of a debate will always look way stronger than it is in real life.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

The only whiny complainers are posts like yours. Most people I see posting in this thread seem to want to improve the system to help save more children’s lives.

But whatever, if you don’t take child abduction seriously just continue your pointless holier than thou for internet brownie points.

This is all unnecessary and weakens the discussion.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

The only whiny complainers are posts like yours. Most people I see posting in this thread seem to want to improve the system to help save more children’s lives.

But whatever, if you don’t take child abduction seriously just continue your pointless holier than thou for internet brownie points.

Like what? Turning it off so they can ignore it? I am missing a step on how being able to disable it will benefit children.



1) Disable Amber Alerts.
2) Incoming Amber Alerts are ignored.

3) ...
4) Children saved!

[jayswin]

His point is valid - we do need to listen to both sides and improve the system if possible, his delivery was so poor though, just too dramatic and polarizing. Online discussion needs to evolve from this.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by jayswin

His point is valid - we do need to listen to both sides and improve the system if possible, his delivery was so poor though, just too dramatic and polarizing. Online discussion needs to evolve from this.

Sure, but there haven't really been any good points raised in opposition to the current system in how to improve it. It's just a rehash of, "I already know that I don't know anything about these kidnapped or missing children, so don't bother me".



I think something the province could do is add a fake link that purports to end all future alerts and record how many times that link is visited versus the one that requests more information. It would be interesting at least to know how many people who received the alert would actually try to cancel future alerts.

[Fuzz]

I think there have been some good suggestions on improving it. Count me amoung the "I want a better system", not "I want one that doesn't bother me" people, because like I said, I have yet to be bothered by it.


So, from what has been posted in this thread, they could use varying levels of alert. SO for an Amber Alert and your phone is in DND mode, you get a silent alert delivered, that you can see when you wake up, so the next time you look at your phone, which for most people is every 3 minutes anyway, if they are awake. If it is a Civilization Ending Meteorite, you get an audible alarm no matter what.


Why is that an improvement? Because you lessen the chance of people just ignoring it, or rolling over at the 3am, clicking whatever shuts it up and not looking at it because they have gotten an alber alert every 2 weeks, and it becomes routine to not read it. I think lots of other jurisdictions do it this way? I don't see this reducing the effectiveness of an amber alert in any way.


The other improvement is obviously improving the wording for dismissing the message, and maybe leaving it in the notification bar until you click a dismiss form there, so it stays on your notifications unless you take a specific effort to dismiss it. No one pays much attention at 3 am to how they shut up a noise, they just want it silenced. But it would be nice if the next morning it was easy to review.


There may have been other suggestions as well.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So, from what has been posted in this thread, they could use varying levels of alert. SO for an Amber Alert and your phone is in DND mode, you get a silent alert delivered, that you can see when you wake up, so the next time you look at your phone, which for most people is every 3 minutes anyway, if they are awake. If it is a Civilization Ending Meteorite, you get an audible alarm no matter what.


Why is that an improvement? Because you lessen the chance of people just ignoring it, or rolling over at the 3am, clicking whatever shuts it up and not looking at it because they have gotten an alber alert every 2 weeks, and it becomes routine to not read it. I think lots of other jurisdictions do it this way? I don't see this reducing the effectiveness of an amber alert in any way

That’s the thing though. This “improvement” doesn’t actually improve it, because all it does is actually delay the response or increase the likelihood that one won’t look at it.

If we’re using anecdotes, every morning when I wake up, I clear right past the notification page and go right into checking messages, emails, and whatever else (in that order). Surely, I’m not the only one that does this. So what your “improvement” does is take the alert from something I would hear for sure, to something I would likely miss entirely.

The other issue? DND is not a “sleep time only” function, and can and is used throughout the day. There are people who use it ALL day. So those are, once again, people you’re eliminating from the alert pool for no real reason.

I’m all for improving the system, but I find that a lot of the “improvements” really are based on a few people not liking the user experience. The thing is, that doesn’t really matter. “How effective is the system at doing it’s job” is the only thing that will spark the need for change, and it seems like it’s doing a pretty great job (according to law enforcement, other officials, etc). That’s all that matters.

Unfortunately, and this is just going to always upset people, waking you up with a noise that you can’t ignore, even if you can ignore the alert itself, is always going to be better than a silent alert you can ignore completely from go. I don’t think anyone gives a #### about some of these improvements, because all any of them do is make the alerts easier to ignore, which is the opposite of what you want.

If it’s hard to ignore, less people will ignore it.
If it’s easy to ignore, more people will ignore it.

That’s how humans work. Let’s not go recommending “improvements” that don’t take the basics into consideration.

[Fuzz]

That's ignoring the "boy who cried wolf" argument though. Human nature is a finicky thing.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's ignoring the "boy who cried wolf" argument though. Human nature is a finicky thing.

That’s a factor, but not one that silent notifications address. No matter how the notification gets delivered, if people see a pattern of it having nothing to do with them, they’re unlikely to listen in the future. Though, I would hope that with the geographic targeting people would understand that it very like could have something to do with them, regardless. But is there a way to improve it?

Silent notifications isn’t it. It doesn’t improve the system’s effectiveness.

[Weitz]

Did it not make sound for anyone else?

I just woke up in the morning with it on my phone... No way I don't wake up from it, especially with a 9 week old puppy in the room.

[Ducay]

Mine (Galaxy S10), was on DnD and didn't ring, but holy hell it vibrated like mad, twice.

[topfiverecords]

Put me in the “I don’t want to be disturbed for a Civilization Ending Meteorite alert” camp.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Except that almost every recommendation for how to fix it is based on a lack of empathy.

A recommendation that the system be used to its fullest potential is not a lack of empathy, it's a desire for the system to work better. Do you acknowledge that I can both have empathy for children, and simultaneously realize that the Edmonton tornado rolling through is a far greater and immediate threat to public safety and should be treated as such in our alerting system?

Originally Posted by Wormius

Sure, but there haven't really been any good points raised in opposition to the current system in how to improve it.

The system has tiered levels of alerts that we have chosen not to use, as stated above.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I mean kudos to you for disabling them as it's your right, but it needs repeating - If people don't like what cases are being sent out your beef is not with the emergency alert system it's with the criteria for an amber alert.

The AEA app has sent its alert 30-60 seconds prior to the presidential alert on my devices so it's faster, and works properly every time and sends the correct information as required. I can pick my own notification sound, receive non-provincewide alerts for specific areas like Lethbridge where my parents are, etc.

My disabling of the presidential alerts is in fact to receive more alerts.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Acey

A recommendation that the system be used to its fullest potential is not a lack of empathy, it's a desire for the system to work better. Do you acknowledge that I can both have empathy for children, and simultaneously realize that the Edmonton tornado rolling through is a far greater and immediate threat to public safety and should be treated as such in our alerting system?

The system has tiered levels of alerts that we have chosen not to use, as stated above.

I am just having a hard time seeing the other side of this argument. If an alert for a missing person comes in, I look at the phone and quickly go through my memories to determine if I know anything relevant, if I don't, I go back to what I am doing and mentally catalog it in case something comes up later.



If I look at it and it says "Flash Flooding on the Bow River", I will similarly look at, and consider how to proceed.



Both of these situations have a critical time element for getting information out there to the most people. So what exactly would you change that wouldn't impact the efficacy?

[PepsiFree]

I’m also not entirely sure how it makes a big difference. An alert goes off, it may be of concern to you or not, the only way to know is by reading it. Say the alert is “bigger,” so you definitely read it. The alert is “smaller,” so you... don’t, probably.

That doesn’t seem ideal.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

In the event of "civilization ending meteorite", the reaction you want from the alert system - that is, the reaction you want to provoke in those hearing the alert, is - "HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, WHY THE HELL IS MY PHONE MAKING THAT AWFUL NOISE!?" *reads phone intently, as this is not a thing that has occurred before*

In contrast, the reaction you do not want is, "Damn it, another amber alert... that's twice this month I've been woken up by these things." *taps side of phone to cause sound to stop and then returns to sleep*

Regardless of the moralizing, you just have to recognize reality: you're going to get a lot more of the latter from the current system. I don't know what the solution to that problem is, but it's a problem. Possibly a somewhat less intrusive form of pushed alert? I don't know.

[PsYcNeT]

I think everyone is ignoring what is actually happening. The Amber Alert notification is just the average-level message.

A nuclear event/meteorite will cause your phone to screech out a top-volume Casio-keyboard rendition of Kim Mitchell's "Patio Lanterns" mixed with REM's "It's The End Of The World As We Know It" while strobing both it's screen and flashlight in the Morse pattern for "HOLD ONTO YOUR BUTTS".

Working as intended.

[4X4]

Well if the nuclear event/meteorite is going to involve having to listen to Kim Mitchell, then I hope the missile lands right in my bedroom.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Well if the nuclear event/meteorite is going to involve having to listen to Kim Mitchell, then I hope the missile lands right in my bedroom.

Maybe if the world is going to end, you might as well go for soda so that nobody drowns and nobody dies.