Why Canada’s recycling industry is in crisis mode

[CaptainYooh]

All this insanity stems for thoughtless brainwashing. The public's and, subsequently, politicians' perception must change from "We recycle, because it feels good!" to "We recycle, only when it makes economic sense". The only materials that make economic sense recycling are metals and, more specifically for now, aluminum. At least, businesses can break even recycling and re-selling aluminum. Recycling everything else - doesn't make any financial sense and, as we see, now, it doesn't make any environmental sense either; all the stuff we carefully collect, wash and deposit in our blue bins ends up in garbage landfills anyway. Even well-developed countries can no longer feasibly recycle the crap we generate. Poor countries just dump their garbage wherever they can.

The only rational answers seem to be obvious:
1) The world needs to acknowledge the sheer stupidity of recycling for the sake of recycling; it's just dumb. Industries and new technologies seem perfectly capable to supply all of the worlds paper, glass and plastic needs (the supply concern), while the recycling industry cannot process the garbage being generated (the accumulation concern).

2) Invest in combined powerful incineration and heat-generated electricity production facilities near all major urban centres. Research how to make them clean and efficient. Why is it not being done and, even more surprising, why is it not being openly and vocally pushed?

[GGG]

I wonder if the sequestration of garbage, especially plastics, is more environmentally sound than incineration. From an emmissions stand if it is higher emmissions than Natural Gas it probably doesn’t make sense to build them and instead bury the waste.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Need to get rid of bottle deposits now that we have blue cart recycling. Policy that worked well before full scale residential recycling but now outdated.

But not every municipality has blue bins, nor do rural areas.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

But not every municipality has blue bins, nor do rural areas.

Right. So we need to institute a policy to pave those areas that are not socially progressive enough to meet our standards.

Did you know that Airdrie doesnt even have green bins? They throw their compost into the trash! Like animals!

[SebC]

I have no idea how much I should wash my plastics before I recycle them. On one hand, you hear these stories about contamination. On the other, you're told they don't have to be perfect and excessive washing is bad for the environment.

Personally, I think any decent recycling facility should be able to wash things more efficiently that I can. They should be designed to decontaminate plastics of food residue and labels.

[81MC]

Better yet, clamshells/plastic packaging for food stuffs should be banned. In what world should every single pint of berries in a shipment of hundreds of pounds be in an individual plastic container? I don’t shop there more than twice a year, but the amount of produce in plastic at Superstore and the like is abhorrent.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Better yet, clamshells/plastic packaging for food stuffs should be banned. In what world should every single pint of berries in a shipment of hundreds of pounds be in an individual plastic container? I don’t shop there more than twice a year, but the amount of produce in plastic at Superstore and the like is abhorrent.

There is a market (and maybe more coming?) where there is no packaging and you have to bring your own containers. The one I know is on Kensington road. I think that should be the way things go, but it’s a significant change in behaviour for most of us. I think it’s necessary and would make an enormous impact, but I can’t be relied on to always bring my reusable bags as it is!

[PepsiFree]

Why is it we can’t just switch back to the compostable cardboard-like material that plastic clamshells replaced?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Slava

There is a market (and maybe more coming?) where there is no packaging and you have to bring your own containers. The one I know is on Kensington road. I think that should be the way things go, but it’s a significant change in behaviour for most of us. I think it’s necessary and would make an enormous impact, but I can’t be relied on to always bring my reusable bags as it is!

You can bring your own containers to Bulk Barn now. They just weigh them on the way in.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why is it we can’t just switch back to the compostable cardboard-like material that plastic clamshells replaced?

Is that better?

Plastic is a waste product from gasoline production. Is sequestering that plastic waste in a landfill more environmentally friendly than increasing the farmed acres of forest and recycling cardboard?

Or if you compost is the CO2 released in the process and the total lifecycle of the forestry process better than using a waste product from the gasoline process

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Slava

There is a market (and maybe more coming?) where there is no packaging and you have to bring your own containers. The one I know is on Kensington road. I think that should be the way things go, but it’s a significant change in behaviour for most of us. I think it’s necessary and would make an enormous impact, but I can’t be relied on to always bring my reusable bags as it is!

I wish there was a model where everything comes in a few standard sizes of containers, all pre-filled. You grab whatever you want (no time wasted filling them) and pay a deposit on the way out.

Next time you dump off your dirty containers on the way in, get credit toward your next bill for the deposits. Buy more stuff. Repeat.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I wish there was a model where everything comes in a few standard sizes of containers, all pre-filled.

That's every other store besides Bulk Barn.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Shazam

That's every other store besides Bulk Barn.

I guess, if you ignore the entire second part of the post.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I guess, if you ignore the entire second part of the post.

Point being, the entire business model of Bulk Barn goes out the window.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Point being, the entire business model of Bulk Barn goes out the window.

No it doesn’t. Most of the items at bulk barn are not pre-filled. Did you even read the post you quoted???

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GGG

Is that better?

Plastic is a waste product from gasoline production. Is sequestering that plastic waste in a landfill more environmentally friendly than increasing the farmed acres of forest and recycling cardboard?

Or if you compost is the CO2 released in the process and the total lifecycle of the forestry process better than using a waste product from the gasoline process

Fair point, I have no idea. My perception at least would be that the waste is reduced and that plastics and less environmentally ideal than papers. I figure you could also manufacture these containers primarily out of recycled papers, which wouldn’t be all that intensive, since they don’t need to be bleached, smoothed, or be structurally all that significant to hold some berries.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

No it doesn’t. Most of the items at bulk barn are not pre-filled. Did you even read the post you quoted???

No, I read it. You do not understand and neither does Bill.

The entire point of Bulk Barn is that they ship the items to the store in bulk. That costs less money than shipping "pre-filled" containers. That is how you save money by shopping at Bulk Barn.

Oh wait, are people suggesting that the employees fill the items at the store? Don't quit your day jobs, folks.

[Azure]

Are there not certain European countries that do a very good at recycling everything? Why can't we follow their model?

What is insane to me is lots of businesses don't even recycle their cardboard. It just goes to the trash because there is little incentive for them to divert it to the recycling center.

If you generate a lot of cardboard waste as a business, it is expensive to get a bin and haul it away. And when you do haul it away you get paid next to nothing for it. If you DO insist on recycling, the best option is almost finding a beat up old enclosed trailer and just tossing it in there and haul it to the recycling center once every few months. That is what we do.

A cardboard baler is $5k to $10k, and even then you simply cannot generate enough revenue to make it worthwhile. Hauling an ENTIRE load of cardboard bales to a depot that accepts them will net you maybe $40.

Funny enough on the metal/steel/aluminum side it is much easier as a business to recycle around these parts as there is a local plant that smelts everything down and diverts the different materials where they need to go. We keep a bin for those kinds of materials and haul it in there every few months.

On the electronics side it is a mess as well. You have to PAY to take stuff to an electronics depot so guess what most people do? They haul it to the dump.

Glass products are the same way. Most people just haul it to the dump because there is no easy way to clean it up.

We TRY to recycle best we can, and it is hard. Granted this is Manitoba, so I'm not really sure what Alberta is like anymore. I know you did get a lot more for recycled cans, whereas here in Manitoba it is a lot more strict so guess what people do? They haul it to the dump.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Fair point, I have no idea. My perception at least would be that the waste is reduced and that plastics and less environmentally ideal than papers. I figure you could also manufacture these containers primarily out of recycled papers, which wouldn’t be all that intensive, since they don’t need to be bleached, smoothed, or be structurally all that significant to hold some berries.

If a manufacturer sources their cardboard from recycled sources as much as possible it is a LOT more environmentally friendly to use than plastic products.

To me as someone who deals with a lot of waste products, I am glad that the manufacturers we buy from all use cardboard.

We recycle 95%+ of our cardboard, and a lot of boxes get used 3-4 times before they even get sent to recycling.

On the plastic side, we recycle next to nothing because it is hard to do.

To me it seems like we should be using MORE cardboard products and less plastic. If there is a concern over cutting down trees to MAKE the cardboard, I'd imagine those types of trees are easy to plant and manage.

[GGG]

My thought was that the incremental energy required to produce plastic packaging is very low becuase it is effectively a waste stream from the oil and gas industry. So you already spent CO2 getting the product so only the incremental CO2 would be spent. I’m thinking CO2 intensity rather than other issues like micro plastics.

So if the cardboard is recycled I think it makes sense that cardboard is the right choice.

Is cardboard a waste stream from pulp and paper or do trees get harvested to produce cardboard?