[Rumour] McKenzie: Hearing the Flames are very intent on moving one of Hamonic or Brodie

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

Or that he presents a pretty compelling case to keep Brodie. I've been the guy more often than not that you hear screaming at Brodie from my seats. I have always been a big fan of Hammer. But after reading this thread I have gone from being 100% on the dump Brodie bandwagon, to not really caring who gets traded. DeluxeMustache may have a bias to Brodie, but he has used stats that are quite convincing. He's brought me back to the median on this one.

So, what contract would you offer him to return to the Flames?


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[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Hamonic was on the pairing that got absolutely owned in the playoffs. Maybe some people missed that somehow.

Backlund and Tkachuk were the forwards that got absolutely owned in the playoffs by the Avs top line. Should the Flames trade them both?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't think Stone is bought out. That cap hit is high, but it's manageable, and he's a useful player to have around, especially if Brodie is gone. He seems like a natural fit to return on the third pairing, given that the organization doesn't exactly have a ton of other RHD options. I'd be very interested in seeing him given substantial time with Valimaki next season.

Stone to me is like an old car that still runs ok and you've spent a fair bit on in the past. Way more valuable to have around than you get in a sale. In other words, he's my wife's old minivan that we kept rather than trade in when she got a new car.

[Erick Estrada]

Like I have said numerous times I appreciate Brodie's time with the Flames but it's time to cut him loose. If any 3rd pairing defensemen in the league committed as many gaffes as him they would be out of the league full stop. He's just too high risk of a player especially at a time when Flames goaltending is unsettled.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Like I have said numerous times I appreciate Brodie's time with the Flames but it's time to cut him loose. If any 3rd pairing defensemen in the league committed as many gaffes as him they would be out of the league full stop. He's just too high risk of a player especially at a time when Flames goaltending is unsettled.

You clearly don't understand the nature of his gaffes. Every D makes gaffes. Players are supposed to support the puck so that if one player loses possession, another can cover for them. With Brodie, the rest of the team, including Gio, are already up the ice. Gio is often high in the offensive zone, and frequently even behind the opposition's goal line. If Brodie makes a mistake, there's never anyone behind him to cover for the mistake, so it often ends up as a bad-looking goal. Brodie is the reason that Gio had a Norris-quality season. His numbers aren't even close with anyone else. Ras has good puck sense and is a good passer, but is slow-footed. Gio with Andersson over a full season will be more like he was with Hamilton. He wasn't able to be nearly as aggressive pushing the play up the ice, because he couldn't count on Hamilton to get back to cover for him.

This is not a criticism of Gio, and he well deserves his Norris nomination. But without Brodie as a partner, he would not be in the position he is, he would merely be in the top 10 nominees, as he was with Hamilton.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If the flames move hamonic instead of Brodie it's because of their relative league wide values.

I would imagine that Hamonic would command a much better return as the Leafs for instance were willing to give up a similar return as the Flames for him and they could be one of the teams with high interest in him given they are going to lose a couple of their top 6 defensemen to free agency. That said the Flames gave up a lot for Hamonic so it would be a surprise to see them trade him two years after giving up a small fortune to land him.

[Johnny Makarov]

The Flames defence is butter soft and won't do crap in the playoffs next year. Brodie is as soft as it comes so he is the odd man out.

Also all you Brodie lovers have to admit that almost every one of his glaring cough ups end up in our net. He is the unluckiest dman in the league.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

You clearly don't understand the nature of his gaffes. Every D makes gaffes. Players are supposed to support the puck so that if one player loses possession, another can cover for them. With Brodie, the rest of the team, including Gio, are already up the ice. Gio is often high in the offensive zone, and frequently even behind the opposition's goal line. If Brodie makes a mistake, there's never anyone behind him to cover for the mistake, so it often ends up as a bad-looking goal. Brodie is the reason that Gio had a Norris-quality season. His numbers aren't even close with anyone else. Ras has good puck sense and is a good passer, but is slow-footed. Gio with Andersson over a full season will be more like he was with Hamilton. He wasn't able to be nearly as aggressive pushing the play up the ice, because he couldn't count on Hamilton to get back to cover for him.

This is not a criticism of Gio, and he well deserves his Norris nomination. But without Brodie as a partner, he would not be in the position he is, he would merely be in the top 10 nominees, as he was with Hamilton.

I stopped reading your post after this gem. Too many posters here watch the games and know hockey well enough to understand the nature of his gaffes. Even Burke called him a high risk player. It is what it is.

[GioforPM]

I like Brodie. Hamonic is simply more unique skill-wise on the team and his intangibles are off the chart. I agree that Hamonic likely garners a better return. But it would be a huge hole to fill (bigger than the guy who is sometimes replaced by Andersson on the top pairing).

[Harry Lime]

It's kind of interesting looking at what is out there if Hamonic and Brodie are both on the move.

Hamonic want's to be near family, and people are rightly looking at destinations in Western Canada to make that a reality, but Minnesota is also in that general area. There are two scenarios that would interest me there. Those being :

A smaller Hamonic for Spurgeon trade. Spurgeon has one year left at 5.187M, after which we could let him go to UFA. Not a bad stopgap on the right side, and Minnesota can throw in the 42nd overall to make it worth it to the Flames. Spurgeon is Kris Russell when Kris Russell was at his peak. He has been supplanted by Dumba, but is a fan favorite.

Or Hamonic and Frolik for Spurgeon and Zucker. Straight hockey trade.

I think Brodie's game would translate to the Rangers really well. Picks or prospects or whatever going the other way. Lots of interesting things happening in NY.

I'm ok with Andersson and Stone on the right side, with a pending UFA or Kylington filling in the final spot. Kylington might be the best skater in the organization, and might have the easiest time moving to the right side from the left.

I'm willing to let Stone have all of last year as a mulligan.

[btimbit]

I am a fan of Brodie, but from an asset management point of view moving him does make a hell of a lot of sense. Only one year left on his contract, might be really expensive next summer, we have young guys that can move up the lineup, and his value will probably never be higher.

I love the guy, I have his jersey, but it does make sense

[TheScorpion]

Hamonic for Spurgeon and a second makes less than zero sense for Minnesota.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Backlund and Tkachuk were the forwards that got absolutely owned in the playoffs by the Avs top line. Should the Flames trade them both?

Like I have said many times before (haha), different situations merit different consideration and understanding and thus conversations.

[CF84]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I stopped reading your post after this gem. Too many posters here watch the games and know hockey well enough to understand the nature of his gaffes. Even Burke called him a high risk player. It is what it is.

It really does show that you stopped reading the post at that point...


The poster even talks about the nature of Brodie's gaffes, which you may have realized, had you taken the time to read just a bit further.

[JTech780]

I think you can make very good arguments for trading either player.

I am not the biggest Brodie fan, but if we kept him and traded Hamonic it would give Andersson a bit more time to develop on the 2nd pairing as opposed to tossing him into the fire of the 1st pairing and taking on the other teams top players every night.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

You clearly don't understand the nature of his gaffes. Every D makes gaffes. Players are supposed to support the puck so that if one player loses possession, another can cover for them. With Brodie, the rest of the team, including Gio, are already up the ice. Gio is often high in the offensive zone, and frequently even behind the opposition's goal line. If Brodie makes a mistake, there's never anyone behind him to cover for the mistake, so it often ends up as a bad-looking goal. Brodie is the reason that Gio had a Norris-quality season. His numbers aren't even close with anyone else. Ras has good puck sense and is a good passer, but is slow-footed. Gio with Andersson over a full season will be more like he was with Hamilton. He wasn't able to be nearly as aggressive pushing the play up the ice, because he couldn't count on Hamilton to get back to cover for him.

This is not a criticism of Gio, and he well deserves his Norris nomination. But without Brodie as a partner, he would not be in the position he is, he would merely be in the top 10 nominees, as he was with Hamilton.

I don't agree with assessment at all. Giordano's game is not a result of his partner. It is a result of his own personal abilities, instincts, and high hockey IQ. He is a great defender regardless of his partner, and it has shown in spades as the team has rotated partners through with Giordano.

Brodie OTOH is just the opposite. Brodie's success is very dependent on his playing partner. Brodie's best game is when he paired with Giordano, and only Giordano. Brodie has exceptional skating ability and some really good instincts in head manning the puck, but his hockey IQ is way below average. This is why his gaffes routinely end up in the net. He is the one guy on the blueline that can't be trusted to be out there late in a game while defending a lead. He is just too much of a high risk player that relies on his instincts instead of his head. He needs to be played with a very good defender who will cover for him and make the smart play more than the high reward play. This is why Brodie is incapable of being the guy on a pair by himself. You can't pair a rookie with him, because Brodie is still subject to making those mistakes you expect rookies to make.

Brodie is the guy that should be moved out. The Flames have a Brodie clone in the wings waiting for his moment in Kylington. Kylington may be the better player of the two, with better offensive skills and instincts up ice, but we won't know this until he gets more playing time and opportunity. I think the Flames made a massive mistake in bringing in Fatenberg to move Kylington to the pressbox down the stretch. Fatenberg never really provided the Flames with any edge in any pat of the game, and he was exposed as the pace of game picked up. Kylington would have been an interesting guy to play against the Avs as he had the skating ability to counter the top line. Alas, experience won out over ability and the Flames were bounced without knowing what they had or giving a player a chance to gain some needed experience. Now they have to go another year of letting players cut their teeth and learning in those instances.

[locsofblu]

Well I'm hoping it's Brodie who is the odd man out but I understand why Harmonics name is mentioned here also as Harmonic would fetch you a nicer return than Brodie for sure.
I've been done with Brodie for a while now as his butter soft defensive plays and mental gaffs have become all to common over the last number of years. I really won't miss Brodie's signature defensive move either "The Brodian Flop" where he just falls down and players just skate around him lol. With that being said I do believe he holds some value but not nearly enough as Harmonic.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by locsofblu

Well I'm hoping it's Brodie who is the odd man out but I understand why Harmonics name is mentioned here also as Harmonic would fetch you a nicer return than Brodie for sure.
I've been done with Brodie for a while now as his butter soft defensive plays and mental gaffs have become all to common over the last number of years. I really won't miss Brodie's signature defensive move either "The Brodian Flop" where he just falls down and players to skate around him lol. With that being said I do believe he holds some value but not nearly enough as Harmonic.

There is a certain word you need to add to your autocorrect dismiss list...

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by CF84

It really does show that you stopped reading the post at that point...


The poster even talks about the nature of Brodie's gaffes, which you may have realized, had you taken the time to read just a bit further.

Including the claim that Brodie makes Gio a Norris level player. Which is hilarious.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Including the claim that Brodie makes Gio a Norris level player. Which is hilarious.

Sadly too often Brodie’s play required Giordano to be a Norris level player.