[Rumour] McKenzie: Hearing the Flames are very intent on moving one of Hamonic or Brodie - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Ashes · 05-31-2019, 07:36 PM

Surprised to hear Hamonic in this, also because he was used as a mentor for Hanifin and as mentioned, brings more grit than most or all of our other defensemen.

Since this is to help make room for Tkachuk's contract, would that indicate Tre would be looking for ELC defensemen in return? or at least a D with a lower AAV?. Or maybe try to snag some more draft picks? As some have mentioned, it's supposed to be a top heavy draft up until about the halfway point of the 2nd round.

Rando · 05-31-2019, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I don’t give a crap about the CP bellyaching about Brodie movement. He is a way better player than Hamonic.

They're both 2nd pairing guys, top four. Different roles. If you like Brodie's game better that's fine. Way better?

Next!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

That’s just, like, your opinion, man

If you're going to throw out the line "maybe some people missed that somehow" then you have to explain how you missed Brodie playing so poorly in the playoffs that he was once again demoted off the pairing and Rasmus was moved up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Come on, now, don’t be silly. Gio wasn’t winning the Norris putting up 39 points with Hamilton. With Brodie, 74 points and +39.

Next.

Giordano didn't get 57 assists because he was paired with Brodie. That was from playing on one of the hottest powerplays and lines in the NHL alongside Gaudreau, Monahan and Lindholm.

Giordano finished 8th in Norris voting last year, alongside Hamilton. Just saying.

Monahammer · 05-31-2019, 07:47 PM

I think Rasmus has most of brodie's strengths and few of his weaknesses. Rasmus does not have the strengths that hamonic does. That's why you trade brodie.

What about using Brodie to move up in the draft? I.e. flames 1st (26) + brodie for Arizona 1st (14). Could maybe even try and add janko and snag lawson crouse in the process?

Lots of people are insistent we still need that true 1C... the only way to really get that is the draft. At 14 Rafael lavoie could be that... or maybe Krebs, cozens, or dach is still around.

Rando · 05-31-2019, 07:52 PM

Using a major piece like Brodie or Hamonic to move up 10-15 spots, that aren't even in prime drafting positions?

Next!

transplant99 · 05-31-2019, 07:52 PM

I think Brodie has been as good as gone for months now. He did that to himself with game after game of gaffes, bumbles and flat out disappearing then interspersing a few good and a couple great performances. Add in his complete lack of physicality on a team woefully short on it to begin with.

Hamonic was solid from start to finish with the odd bad game and a couple tremendous efforts. Was hard to play against all season, and will be cheaper to retain between the two.

Playoffs? The entire team was woeful. Brodie with one of the worst sequences i have ever seen from an NHL dman is burned into my brain. Cough up the puck at the blueline...then drop stick while chasing on a breakaway...then attempt some awkward shoestring type tackle and miss by about 4 feet.

Bye bye Brodie will be the cry come draft day is my guess.

SportsJunky · 05-31-2019, 07:55 PM

I think Brodie comes up in a lot of CP proposals because he has perceived value. Probably more than Hamonic. It isn't bellyaching so much as trying to entice another team to take on some cap in a trade. If Hamonic has more value to other GMs I have no issue with him going. I think it's certain that a man is moved and probably one of those two.

KootenayFlamesFan · 05-31-2019, 08:00 PM

Brodie doesn't make Gio a Norris candidate, Gio makes Gio a Norris candidate.

DeluxeMoustache · 05-31-2019, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rando

Giordano finished 8th in Norris voting last year, alongside Hamilton. Just saying.

So is there not in your mind a difference between finishing 8th and being a favourite?

Ok then.

DeluxeMoustache · 05-31-2019, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Brodie doesn't make Gio a Norris candidate, Gio makes Gio a Norris candidate.

Gio would credit his teammates for the opportunity to achieve at a high level

He was not a Norris candidate / favourite when he had to cover for the holes in Hamilton’s game

It has been noticed by many people here.

Gio paired with Brodie prior to being paired with Hamilton - top tier all around performance
With Hamilton - doesn’t crack 40 points
With Brodie again - 74 points and +39

Ignore it if you want, I don’t care. I have pointed out facts and have nothing further to say on the matter

KootenayFlamesFan · 05-31-2019, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Gio would credit his teammates for the opportunity to achieve at a high level

He was not a Norris candidate / favourite when he had to cover for the holes in Hamilton’s game

He just had a better season, regardless who he played with.

transplant99 · 05-31-2019, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So is there not in your mind a difference between finishing 8th and being a favourite?

Ok then.

Sure...but to suggest that difference is solely TJ Brodie is just wrong...particularly when Brodie was literally removed from that pairing because he was dragging Gio and the top line down when out together. People keep saying he had a good season...he didnt and hasnt for 3 consecutive years now.

Giordano had a tremendous year...all on his own and to sell him short on what he accomplished is just weak.

transplant99 · 05-31-2019, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

He just had a better season, regardless who he played with.

Exactly...not sure why a few just cant admit that.

bigrangy · 05-31-2019, 08:10 PM

Gio also didn’t have the liability of a coach that GG was this year and I think it’s mainly due to that that Gio saw a downturn in production the last couple years, not playing with Hamilton.

It is impossible to fully describe just how ineptly GG used the players available to him the last 2 years. The window opened in 16-17 and we never noticed because he sank the team the second he took over.

That being said, Gio-Brodie make a great pairing, and if the Flames are aiming at the cup next year, they should definitely be trying to keep it together.

DeluxeMoustache · 05-31-2019, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

Sure...but to suggest that difference is solely TJ Brodie is just wrong...particularly when Brodie was literally removed from that pairing because he was dragging Gio and the top line down when out together. People keep saying he had a good season...he didnt and hasnt for 3 consecutive years now.

Giordano had a tremendous year...all on his own and to sell him short on what he accomplished is just weak.

And neglecting the facts and data is obtuse.

Gio can do what he does because he can trust Brodie.

Gio’s actual results w/ primary partner Brodie >>> Gio’s actual results with primary partner other D. Like clockwork.

That is all

Mass_nerder · 05-31-2019, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I think Rasmus has most of brodie's strengths and few of his weaknesses. Rasmus does not have the strengths that hamonic does. That's why you trade brodie.

What about using Brodie to move up in the draft? I.e. flames 1st (26) + brodie for Arizona 1st (14). Could maybe even try and add janko and snag lawson crouse in the process?

Lots of people are insistent we still need that true 1C... the only way to really get that is the draft. At 14 Rafael lavoie could be that... or maybe Krebs, cozens, or dach is still around.

Not trying to argue that we need to keep Brodie, but Brodie's biggest strength is his ability to skate himself out of trouble.
Rasmus is an okay skater at best.
I think he'll be a great player, but I don't see them being similar at all. I'm fact, I see Andersson being closer to Hammer in that he seems to have a bit of a mean steak, isn't afraid to muck it up a bit, and can really shoot the puck.

transplant99 · 05-31-2019, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

And neglecting the facts and data is obtuse.

Gio can do what he does because he can trust Brodie.

Gio’s actual results w/ primary partner Brodie >>> Gio’s actual results with primary partner other D. Like clockwork.

That is all

Who is "neglecting facts and data"?

Gio did what he did because he is a tremendous hockey player, not because anyone else propelled him to such levels.

Jeezuz.

Rando · 05-31-2019, 08:20 PM

You can't accuse people of ignoring facts and data when you lump Giordano's point totals on his partners back and ignore that fact he had 20+ points (8th for Dmen) on the powerplay playing away from him.

DeluxeMoustache · 05-31-2019, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

Who is "neglecting facts and data"?

Gio did what he did because he is a tremendous hockey player, not because anyone else propelled him to such levels.

Jeezuz.

Yeah. Gio had a great year and deserves the Norris. I personally think we agree on that, but somehow you don’t think so. Not sure why, that’s bizarre.

Second point, his partner was Brodie. D partners work as pairings. Brodie contributes to Gio’s overall success.

Most people know that D play different with different partners. Even Brodie mentioned that when he played with Prout, he could activate more as Prout was staying at home. If you use your head, you can figure out that he is the stay at home guy more often when Gio activates.

Why is it such a god damn controversy that Gio’s partner contributes to his success? I am a hundred percent certain that Gio would give Brodie credit where it is due.

transplant99 · 05-31-2019, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

Not trying to argue that we need to keep Brodie, but Brodie's biggest strength is his ability to skate himself out of trouble.
Rasmus is an okay skater at best.
I think he'll be a great player, but I don't see them being similar at all. I'm fact, I see Andersson being closer to Hammer in that he seems to have a bit of a mean steak, isn't afraid to muck it up a bit, and can really shoot the puck.

Agreed. Andersons skating is a bit of a concern, but last year it seemed like he adapted at every turn.

Brodie is a better skater than most on the blueline. Defensively he is very average overall though. There are others that can match him offensively, others yet who are much more physical and others who have way better shots. No one else made as many obvious gaffes as he did either.

This team has a lot of good skaters on the back end though so its not that Brodie cant be replaced internally.

I think that's why he has value elsewhere and is an obvious trade piece.

DeluxeMoustache · 05-31-2019, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rando

You can't accuse people of ignoring facts and data when you lump Giordano's point totals on his partners back and ignore that fact he had 20+ points (8th for Dmen) on the powerplay playing away from him.

Big deal. Gio has averaged 16.5 power play points the past 6 years.

He had 21 PP points to Yandle’s 39.

Gio was 3rd in the league in even strength points.

Trouba was 22nd in the NHL with 29 even strength points. Gio had 29 of his even strength points with Brodie as his partner.