Churchill Manitoba to become major sea port? - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

jolinar of malkshor · 01-11-2007, 06:37 PM

Russia offers to break the ice on the route to Port Churchill

Russia's Transport Minister is urging the federal government to open Churchill, Man., as a year-round port, saying his country's modern icebreaker fleet can now accomplish what some fear global warming will do in a few decades. In a visit to Ottawa this week, Transport Minister Igor Levitin urged his federal and Manitoba counterparts to step up efforts to realize the centuries-old dream of a polar shipping route, in this case linking Asian and North American markets. Similarly, Mr. Levitin wants Canada to expand the role of the Winnipeg airport as a key hub in an Asia-to-North America air transit circle route.

He said the bilateral talks on the so-called Arctic Bridge sea route have been on the back burner for the past 15 years, but the time has come to act on it.

Russia has a fleet of seven modern icebreakers that could render Churchill and the Siberian port of Murmansk serviceable throughout the year.

(Reported by the globe and mail. Cannot provide link as this was intra office media)

This would be quite something if this actually happened.

Muta · 01-11-2007, 06:44 PM

Interesting....Although I'm sure the Environmentalists will pipe up with a counter arguement to Arctic big business.

Still, the idea of Manitoba becoming a hub for the Asian markets is definitely intriguing. I'm sure there would be many months of planning and bureaucracy to overcome.

octothorp · 01-11-2007, 06:52 PM

Interesting stuff... but what's the advantage to a major port in Churchill? I don't see any real advantage there over routing stuff through Vancouver or Thunder Bay...

FlamesAddiction · 01-11-2007, 06:55 PM

This was a major issue back in the late 90s when I lived in Thunder Bay, ON. A lot of people in that city are worried about their port's future if Churchill becomes a major port.

jolinar of malkshor · 01-11-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octothorp

Interesting stuff... but what's the advantage to a major port in Churchill? I don't see any real advantage there over routing stuff through Vancouver or Thunder Bay...

I think it is more for Russian goods. Stuff that comes from the central interior of Russia. Instead of sending it to either coasts then across the ocean, they can send it to their northern port, ship it iver the pole to churchill and then send it to USA. Probably a lot of distance reduced as far as shipping distance.

Rerun · 01-11-2007, 07:02 PM

Canada has its own icebreakers (I've sailed and worked on one) and I'm sure we don't need Russia's help.

jolinar of malkshor · 01-11-2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerun

Canada has its own icebreakers (I've sailed and worked on one) and I'm sure we don't need Russia's help.

How good are they tho? Just wondering because I have no idea.

edn88 · 01-11-2007, 07:36 PM

I like this idea - opening up ports other than the East/West cost has to be good for the Canadian economy.

CaptainCrunch · 01-11-2007, 08:19 PM

This would be a great way to establish our soverenty up there.

edn88 · 01-11-2007, 09:03 PM

And maybe the Manitoba economy could pick up to the point that Winterpeg could actually afford an NHL team.

Kybosh · 01-11-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

This would be a great way to establish our soverenty up there.

Not with Russia doing a lot of the work. If I remember correctly Canada only has something like three nuclear powered icebreakers. Also, I seem to recall that the icebreakers we have are getting up there in age and really don't compete with either the American or Russian ones (not entirely sure though). The area is notoriously difficult to assert dominance over simply due to the huge area. Personally I think it would be fantastic if this came to pass as a viable shipping option.

jolinar of malkshor · 01-11-2007, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kybosh

Not with Russia doing a lot of the work. If I remember correctly Canada only has something like three nuclear powered icebreakers. Also, I seem to recall that the icebreakers we have are getting up there in age and really don't compete with either the American or Russian ones (not entirely sure though). The area is notoriously difficult to assert dominance over simply due to the huge area. Personally I think it would be fantastic if this came to pass as a viable shipping option.

I could be wrong, but I don't think we have any nuclear powered anything, other than the power plants we have. I am pretty sure the icebreakers we have are diesel powered.

Kybosh · 01-11-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I could be wrong, but I don't think we have any nuclear powered anything, other than the power plants we have. I am pretty sure the icebreakers we have are diesel powered.

I think you might be right. I'm racking my brain trying to remember the paper I wrote in undergrad on the subject but I'm drawing a blank. Maybe I'm thinking of three because Harper may have had it on his election platform.

RougeUnderoos · 01-11-2007, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

This would be a great way to establish our soverenty up there.

Churchill isn't far enough north for that to be a consideration, is it? It's a hell of a long way from Hans Island, for example. The boats must be using the Hudson Strait to get in there and that's pretty clearly a part of Canada.

I hope they aren't already thinking of sending cargo ships right over the top from to wangle their way past Ellesmere island and into Hudson Bay. Then sovereignty would be an issue, but not a very big one. We'll have other things on our mind if that happens.

octothorp · 01-11-2007, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I think it is more for Russian goods. Stuff that comes from the central interior of Russia. Instead of sending it to either coasts then across the ocean, they can send it to their northern port, ship it iver the pole to churchill and then send it to USA. Probably a lot of distance reduced as far as shipping distance.

Right, I'm just having trouble visualizing what route this would involve. I mean, we aren't talking about going straight across the pole, right? Is it really that much easier to go from Churchill through the Hudson straight, around the southern tip of greenland, and then north again toward Russia, as opposed to shipping to Thunder Bay, out the St. Laurence, and then north to greenland? Or going the other way, keeping a path around the Boothian peninsula and then west to Siberia... wouldn't it be simpler to go from Vancouver north to the Bering Straight and then along the Russian northern coast?

edit: in reading a bit more, I guess maybe they are talking about a route that goes north over the pole... I know Russia has sent an icebreaker to the pole, but keeping such a route open year round, that's going to be an extremely difficult undertaking.

RougeUnderoos · 01-11-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octothorp

Right, I'm just having trouble visualizing what route this would involve. I mean, we aren't talking about going straight across the pole, right? Is it really that much easier to go from Churchill through the Hudson straight, around the southern tip of greenland, and then north again toward Russia, as opposed to shipping to Thunder Bay, out the St. Laurence, and then north to greenland? Or going the other way, keeping a path around the Boothian peninsula and then west to Siberia... wouldn't it be simpler to go from Vancouver north to the Bering Straight and then along the Russian northern coast?

I'm literally just looking at a map on the wall and I don't know anything about this subject, but it looks like going from Churchill to, for example, Murmansk would be a much shorter/cheaper/faster trip than going on the same cruise from Thunder Bay.

I would imagine the Russian northern coast is locked up pretty tight almost year round while the north atlantic is passable, save a Leonardo Di Caprio nemesis or two.

Vulcan · 01-12-2007, 03:47 AM

From what i could find out Murmansk is an ice free port north of Moscow. Looking at Google Earth it looks like the route may go north of Greenland. Just a guess though.

Russian icebreakers sounds kind of scary, maybe we should clear it with the USA first.

Rerun · 01-12-2007, 10:00 AM

The Canadian Coast Guard has a fleet of 17 icebreakers. Five are dedicated icebreakers and 12 are multi-tasked ice-strengthened vessels.

http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/fleet-flott...res/main_e.asp

As far as I know none are nuclear powered. This is not neccessary.

Hack&Lube · 01-12-2007, 11:39 AM

This would be a good thing for Manitoba. Give central Canada something of importance to do. A major shipping port rivaling Seattle/New York but as a polar route from Asia may be lucrative.

Vulcan · 01-12-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

This would be a good thing for Manitoba. Give central Canada something of importance to do. A major shipping port rivaling Seattle/New York but as a polar route from Asia may be lucrative.

Yeah, I agree, great for Manitoba. There is already a railroad going up there but I think it comes from Saskatchewan.

It would actually rival Vancouver, as it is the biggest N.A. port on the Pacific.
Wasn't there a thread about a Canada, US, Mexico route through the middle of the continent with St Louis or Kansas City as major distribution points. This would fit right in.