Sam Bennett contract negotiations.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Hey Connor, It's Mess

3.5 x 7.5

3.5 years or 7.5 years?

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Hmmm not sure on that one.

I assumed he burnt year 1 of his elc when he played that 1 game and then the playoffs, and 4 more since which would equal 5....and he needs 7 to reach UFA.

I could be completely out to lunch on that though.

From what I can tell a player has to be on the teams active roster for 40 games to accrue a season. So Bennett was only on the Flames active roster for around 15 games and played 12. He wasnt on the active roster out of training camp due to his injury. So although it used a year of his contract it I don't think it got him a year closer to Group 3 Unrestricted free agency.

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

Originally Posted by transplant99

3.5 years or 7.5 years?

7.5 years. His mustache earns him half a season off.

[ForeverFlameFan]

2.75 x 4 years. Pay the little extra to get an extra year or two.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

I really like how eloquently you addressed the post.

What happened to this place?

You didn't find it silly?

The baby with the bathwater reaction to the player that was over the top?

I will admit I should have expanded, but I did in the next minute in another post. But the walk away from him narrative from some just gets so tiring.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

He cut down on the stupid penalties somewhat this year, but there were still some brain cramp moments. He also was invisible for looong stretches, which has been a thing with him since day 1, and why he is an average at best 3rd liner.

Average at best?

What metrics are you using? Straight production he's the league's average 7.5 forward, which puts him at the top of the third line in production.

Add in the intangibles of sticking up for teammates, ability to elevate up the roster and playing with edge and you move up the scale further.

Add in age, contract being non onerous, and then the underlying numbers that suggest there's more and you get a very good third liner, not an average at best third liner at all.

[CaptainCrunch]

Out of curiosity before there's a thought of letting him go. Is there a young, 3rd or 4th line player that can jump up the lineup if needed, that provides the physical game, the drive to the net, the ability to protect his team mates that's not going to get a super difficult contract that's available?


I mean I get that we focus on the draft position, but at this point we need to let it go. We can call him disappointing all we want, and it would be true especially just from a points perspective. But its not like the Flames have a lot of nasty edgy tough players in their lineup that have some skill and can do more then face punch.


On the counter side, when we argue about moving him out, I would bet if someone polled the GM's of the league, they would all love to try to get him because he could become a rare commodity in a league that is moving towards speed and finesse and the softer side of sears.


I would think that if Bennett is on the table, the ask has to be high.


I would only trade him for a big over payment, he's not a reclamation project. I'd rather have him then not have him. We've seen in the playoffs that nastiness is still a valuable asset to have.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Average at best?

What metrics are you using? Straight production he's the league's average 7.5 forward, which puts him at the top of the third line in production.

Add in the intangibles of sticking up for teammates, ability to elevate up the roster and playing with edge and you move up the scale further.

Add in age, contract being non onerous, and then the underlying numbers that suggest there's more and you get a very good third liner, not an average at best third liner at all.

Isnt 7.5 pretty much the middle of a 7/8/9 guy?....so slightly above average?

But sure, average was a small bit of over statement. Either way though...he is a 3rd liner and nothing more. (Based strictly on sample size)

Yes i agree he does other things that help teams...things this club lacks in spades. I already stated that. He also hurts the team at times and i keep seeing claims that he is good defensively....he really isn't. Again maybe average or in this case slightly below.

Underlying numbers? Whatever. Until it translates to contributions on the scoreboard, he could be the next coming of Cam Neely and it doesn't matter.

He is a useful player...at the right salary....and maybe there still is a chance he pops...but how much does the team pay for that?

Really thats all this discussion is about.

His age is what makes this the most interesting IMO. Young but far from raw. Not a core player, but also a guy who has a role on the team. For the most part, F's in this league get paid on production, unless they are strictly role players and really good at that one role. Currently he makes 2.6% of the cap...IF the cap goes to 83M, that would translate to 2.2M. That would be a decent number for him...and I dont think he would dare go all the way to arbitration as he would get smoked in there i think.

So...again..what does a Bennett contract look like?

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Average at best?

What metrics are you using? Straight production he's the league's average 7.5 forward, which puts him at the top of the third line in production.

..... you get a very good third liner, not an average at best third liner at all.

Bingo, honest question, where does he fit on the Flames current roster of forwards, using your metrics, offensively and defensively?

[VilleN]

To those calling Bennett average or below average 3rd liner: did you watch the playoffs? Take away Smith and Bennett and there would have been nothing positive to glean from that series.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by VilleN

To those calling Bennett average or below average 3rd liner: did you watch the playoffs? Take away Smith and Bennett and there would have been nothing positive to glean from that series.

Yeah...he was real good for 5 games.

I also watched him the last 4 years of regular season hockey, hence why he is a 3rd line player. That is all he has proven himself to be.

Why is it such an offense to call players on this team....what they are?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by VilleN

To those calling Bennett average or below average 3rd liner: did you watch the playoffs? Take away Smith and Bennett and there would have been nothing positive to glean from that series.

Did you see the previous 71 games? How about the previous three seasons? Outside of his rookie season, Sam Bennett has been a bad player for the team. He’s a third or fourth liner depending on linemates. Pay him that accordingly, or let him walk.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by New Era

Did you see the previous 71 games? How about the previous three seasons? Outside of his rookie season, Sam Bennett has been a bad player for the team. He’s a third or fourth liner depending on linemates. Pay him that accordingly, or let him walk.

He has never been a bad player.

[Geeoff]

I feel like this might be a difficult negotiation. I'm prepared for Bennett to be moved

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If Mat wasn't playing with the Stone hands twins he would have set up two OT winners and this convo would be much different

Who are the Stone hand twins?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by timbit

Bingo, honest question, where does he fit on the Flames current roster of forwards, using your metrics, offensively and defensively?

I think he's right where he belongs ... maybe the best player on the third line.

I'd love to see the team find a better forward #6 this off season so the Bennett discussion on the second line without injury can be parked.

I love his chance creating numbers but they're not translating. Honestly if I was to build a book to send my pro scouts out to watch, Bennett would be the exact type of player I'd be targeting. Guys that are third liners on decent contracts that have some upside, and perhaps some numbers under the surface suggesting they could pop.

You don't move on from Bennett in my mind.

And Transplant, we're not that far off ... I just find "average at best" suggests "at best he's an average third liner", whereas his numbers alone suggest he's towards the top of the third line league wide, and his intangibles have him doing spot duty in the top six because of the effect he can have on talented players with his board word and physical play.

But I wouldn't call him a top six or go into a season hoping/projecting that he'll "find it"

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Did you see the previous 71 games? How about the previous three seasons? Outside of his rookie season, Sam Bennett has been a bad player for the team. He’s a third or fourth liner depending on linemates. Pay him that accordingly, or let him walk.

Nope.

He's an above average third line NHL hockey player.

No point in bringing fourth line into the discussion because it's hyperbole that's equal to calling him a second liner.

Forward #93 had 52 points this year ... Bennett isn't a first line player.

Forward #186 had 33 points this year, Bennett in an 82 game season was on pace for 31 this year. He's not a second liner, but he's close to the worst one in hockey.

Forward #279 had 21 points this year, the cut off for the best fourth liner. Bennett is well ahead.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Bennett got outscored by Mark Jankowski. Bennett is a 4th liner on this team.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by New Era

Bennett got outscored by Mark Jankowski. Bennett is a 4th liner on this team.

This is exactly why stats don't tell the exact story.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Bennett got outscored by Mark Jankowski. Bennett is a 4th liner on this team.

Well 9th in forward scoring says third line.
Good underlying chance generation stats.
And ice time from a new coach would all suggest otherwise.

Look I'm not making the case that he's a slam dunk 2nd line player, but he just isn't a fourth liner, no point in hanging your hat there.