CWHL to discontinue operations

[N-E-B]

I feel horrible for these girls, but at the same time I don’t think it’s fair to expect the NHL to have to make a bad investment in the name of equality.

The reality is that the money just isn’t there to make it a viable career option right now. Hopefully someday it will be but that’s probably pretty far off.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

There are lots of things that need to be subsidized, but are still worthwhile and beneficial.

The NHL may be small, relative to other pro sports leagues, but it is a $4B industry. Supporting women's hockey would probably cost a few million max. It is not, in any way, cost prohibitive. And would (presumably) build the fanbase.

They are not asking for anything even remotely close to the same rights and pay as the men.

I would think you would have to quantify the benefits of the NHL doing a major sponsorship deal for woman's hockey.


I mean stating that it would increase woman's interest in hockey, I'm not so sure it would. When you see 3 digit attendance in Calgary it doesn't seem to be driving interest, and frankly the interest driven pops once every few years with the Olympic, but then it flattens out again.


I talked to my cousin's daughter who just committed to going to the U of L to play hockey and she watches NHL hockey and she watches the Olympics, she didn't have much interest in the other leagues, and her hockey hero's are male players.



I'm not saying that there's not space for a woman's pro league, but I don't know if there's a foundation for it at this time.



At the end of the day when people ask me about naming woman's pro leagues in team sports, I would probably name the Legends Football League (Even though its horrible football), and the WNBA, but I could tell you anything about it.


The question would have to be pro league? Or Olympic Developmental program and more money and support for the woman in what would essentially be a two year program between Olympics?

[oldschoolcalgary]

the Calgary Flames made 11m profit in 2018... 6 teams lost money... and 10 teams made less than 5m dollars profit last year.

While the NHL is healthier than its been, there's a lot of teams that would have zero interest in handing over a portion of their revenues to women's hockey.

Deserve has nothing to do with this: the NHL is a for profit business. One has to make their case on a positive benefit to the bottom line of the NHL

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

the Calgary Flames made 11m profit in 2018... 6 teams lost money... and 10 teams made less than 5m dollars profit last year.

While the NHL is healthier than its been, there's a lot of teams that would have zero interest in handing over a portion of their revenues to women's hockey.

Deserve has nothing to do with this: the NHL is a for profit business. One has to make their case on a positive benefit to the bottom line of the NHL

Cash flow positive yes, but their capital asset is going up big time.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Cash flow positive yes, but their capital asset is going up big time.

you mean team valuations?

sure, but that's not liquidity.

supporting another league means giving them capital in some form

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

We all want to see women's hockey in the Olympics. And we want (and expect) Canada to dominate.

So here's the thing: a women's pro league is good for the game. But it probably isn't economically viable on its own. That means it needs support.

And who are the benefactors of its success?

1) fans of the Olympics and the game
2) the NHL, because a women's league likely increases interest from female fans

So stop with the 'it needs to be self-sustaining' argument - because it isn't. Ask yourself (you as a fan of the game, as well as all of the stewards of the game, including the NHL) is women's hockey a good thing?

If the answer to that is yes (and IMO, it most definitely is), then support it and help find a way to make it work.

The question is will a women's league ACTUALLY increase female interest from those who aren't fans of hockey already? And if so, will it be profitable, rather than a money loser? Because it won't be worth it if it's giving away money, with no return both in the short, and long term.

How is the WNBA doing on this front? Aren't the players complaining about not getting paid enough? Is the league making enough money for the females to be paid more, and still turn a profit?

[Enoch Root]

The NHL has already stated that it believes a women's league is good for the game, and that they would be willing to support it. But only if there were a single league that wanted the NHL involved - they don't want to compete against a 2nd women's league.

At least that was how I interpreted their comments.

[Derek Sutton]

I would like to see the women as a 3 on 3 league and think that is the best chance for them to survive independently.
-Reduced roster size, each team would consist of 10 skaters and two goalies
-Shorter games, say 3 15 minute periods, or two 20 minute halves, so a greater chance for tv exposure.
-Would allow more of a showcase for their speed and skill
-Deeper talent pool
-Something that is not currently in the market

4 divisions of 4 teams, round robin tournament style format one week end a month for four months. Each team takes a turn as host city and divisions alternate the week end their games, so each team only play three games a month and they are all the same week end, next week end another division would play their games. Top team in each division would qualify for the final four played in a major pre determined host city. Play for prize money. Round Robin games would each be worth say $10k for a win, Final four games worth $25k and the championship game worth $50,000.

This would allow all players to keep and maintain regular jobs, players could really live and work anywhere, They'd fly in to the host city, practice and then games would commence, minimal travel. Would be great exposure for their players and could build into something more. Biggest advantage is that they would be offering something that is not currently out there being a permanent 3 on 3 league.

NW Division
Van, Cgy, Edm, Winnipeg

Central
Detroit, Chicago, Windsor, Minni

Metro
NY, Phi, Bos, Pitt(?)

NE
Mtl, Que City, Tor, Halifax,

[oldschoolcalgary]

latest news:

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/wom...ague-1.5119923

Unhappy with the status quo, more than 200 of the world's top female hockey players declared Thursday they will not compete in North America next season in a dramatic attempt to establish a single, economically viable professional league.

Commissioner Gary Bettman previously told The AP he doesn't want the league to be seen as "a bully" in pushing either of the two out of business. As for assuming control, Bettman has repeatedly said the NHL doesn't believe in either of the league's business models.

Bettman reiterated his position during an interview with The AP this week.

He referred to the CWHL ceasing operations as something that "proved the point that we have genuine concerns about sustainable models."

"What we've repeatedly said is if there turns out to be a void — and we don't wish that on anybody — then we'll look at the possibilities and we'll study what might be appropriate," Bettman added. "But at the end of the day, we're not looking to put anybody out of business. And if the NWHL can make a go of it, we wish them good luck."

[Moneyhands23]

I have a bad feeling that the NHL will be facing a shame campaign if they don't financially step in. Hopefully not as that is just such a disgusting tactic in today's society.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by RyZ

What kind of financial agreement did CSEC have with the Inferno? Did CSEC pay for travel? Equipment? There was already NHL involvement with a number of CWHL teams being owned by NHL teams (CGY, MTL, TOR and maybe BOS?).

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

For the CWHL the NHL teams made a one time contribution prior to year one. There has been no other significant contributions. They were budget teams that raised money to travel and pay the players. Staff were volunteers paid for expenses from what I understand.

IIRC the Flames contribution was $20k spread over 4 years. I also believe it was more of a donation in kind as the team paid for the jersey redesign as well as a bit of social media promotion.

Travel was provided by Westjet.

The team had to raise additional funding through merch sales and other methods. The majority of the staff were all volunteers but some were paid an honorarium by the league.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by BsFaninCGY

Why do women's sports (for the most part) seem to struggle so much?

Just a theory but fans drive pro sports and most sports fans are men, for women's sports to become popular women are going to have to drive the fan base in order to get men to go and cheer women's sports.

[Scorch]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Just a theory but fans drive pro sports and most sports fans are men, for women's sports to become popular women are going to have to drive the fan base in order to get men to go and cheer women's sports.

So women athletes have no one to blame but... women?

[SebC]

The NHL is heavily subsidized through arena deals. That's a potential leverage point for the women - appeal to cities to make those subsidies contingent on supporting the women's game. Though, I would still rather cities scrap those subsidies entirely.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by SebC

The NHL is heavily subsidized through arena deals. That's a potential leverage point for the women - appeal to cities to make those subsidies contingent on supporting the women's game. Though, I would still rather cities scrap those subsidies entirely.

Not really. Cities/counties cannot unilaterally change contracts any more than teams can. Also, everybody on earth would see it as an empty threat. There isn't a single municipality that would throw the NHL team out over this, even if they were capable of doing so.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

I would like to see the women as a 3 on 3 league and think that is the best chance for them to survive independently.
....

I agree they need to do something a bit different to be able to survive, but not sure if that should be 3 on 3.

The market for 'plain old hockey' is pretty saturated in most cities, with NHL/AHL/CHL ECHL etc. I think they should either market at families/kids with shorter game times, or the late night crowd with party atmosphere and nip slips.

[Envitro]

Talking to one of the girls that was supposed to play on the Inferno this year, she said that she wasn't going to sacrifice a high-paying career for a chance to keep playing hockey. She said the salary was meagre at best ($2500 for the season) and you had to give up your Friday (so day off for FT workers) to Monday early morning 2am every weekend for travel and games. She said that it was not that hard of a decision, which is sad.

She said all of the girls that play CWHL have retail side-jobs like Sportchek or something, unless they're one of the few big names that have big sponsors and don't have to do that.

[Derek Sutton]

Not too sure what there end game is but, if they think a women's league could could survive on its own, paying the players as "pro athletes" they are very much mistaken. I like how the the NWHL offered 50/50 revenue sharing, like here see you have have half of nothing.... Will that make you feel better?

Reminds my of the time we were interviewing a pharmacist for our new Sobeys we were opening, he wanted 50% profit sharing, store owner told him he'd give him 100% profit sharing because you know what? The pharmacy isn't projected to make any money for five years....

Ron Maclean interviews 2 players as well as CC in clip below

https://www.sportsnet.ca/more/discus...ssive-boycott/

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Envitro

Talking to one of the girls that was supposed to play on the Inferno this year, she said that she wasn't going to sacrifice a high-paying career for a chance to keep playing hockey. She said the salary was meagre at best ($2500 for the season) and you had to give up your Friday (so day off for FT workers) to Monday early morning 2am every weekend for travel and games. She said that it was not that hard of a decision, which is sad.

She said all of the girls that play CWHL have retail side-jobs like Sportchek or something, unless they're one of the few big names that have big sponsors and don't have to do that.

Right, and that sucks, but whats the alternative? The League doesnt make any money, how can they pay the athletes more?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Locke

Right, and that sucks, but whats the alternative? The League doesnt make any money, how can they pay the athletes more?

The alternative is you don’t make money playing a game you love.

This is the part I get hung up on, I’m all for the sport, and women in sport, and sports in general. But how much money do people expect to get paid to play a game? It just seems like a silly argument.