Flames - how to cure the rot for 2019/20

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TBone290

Conroy was on 960 this morning, obviously talked about the playoffs. Didn't mention names specifically, but said that they will evaluate the core group from the 3 playoff years. Seems like he was strongly hinting at Monahan.

He's still on right now. I don't know if he was hinting at Monahan specifically but he definitely talked about Gadreau like he's not going anywhere and they hope to keep him past this deal so I suppose process of elimination you could assume that they may be looking at what they can do to upgrade around Johnny.

[Toonage]

He mentioned how they hoped Monahan would be skating a bunch this off season, working on the things he isn't as good at. Said he'd be thrilled if Monahan started tomorrow and never touched a puck all summer or something along those lines.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Teroy

But he doesn't need to carry Gaudreau on his back, he doesn't need to carry the play so Gaudreau can perform. It's time to give him a couple of wingers his speed who can feed him the puck. Let' see how JG does if he has to work instead of skating all over the ice with the puck. How the hell does anyone know where to be with his all over the place wanderings. Some of you expect Monahan to be first man back, control the puck, carry it into the offensive zone, dig in the corners, feed JG the puck and be in place to make the shot. Ridiculous.

Gaudreau has to do all the heavy lifting on the line. Exiting the zone with the puck and entering the zone while still having control might be the hardest thing you can do. Not everyone has this skill except the very elite puckhandlers.

Ask yourself on a regular basis what Monahan does in a game, just skates and waits for Gaudreau to make a play, draw defenders and then hopes that he gets fed the puck wide open. That’s heavy lifting right there. Monahan isn’t capable of doing this for the rest of his linemates like elite centers can do. I’m not even sure he has the ability to create his own shot, that’s why most of his goals are scored within a few feet from the crease.

Also, to me, Monahan’a biggest problem is his play in the defensive zone. He’s big, but he plays just as soft as Gaudreau does. Can’t pin guys to the boards to stop the cycle, puck watches all the time and leaves his man wide open, too slow on the backcheck to break up odd man rushes. He looked completely invisible from February to April minus 2 games. I’m surprised you didn’t notice that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Toonage

He mentioned how they hoped Monahan would be skating a bunch this off season, working on the things he isn't as good at. Said he'd be thrilled if Monahan started tomorrow and never touched a puck all summer or something along those lines.

I listen while at my desk so I must of missed that so it's fair to assume that they are zeroing in on his deficiencies. Not a bad thing actually as we have to be careful about writing off players like Monahan that are not even 25 years old. Logan Couture is balling in these playoffs but he's also 30 years old and a different player than he was at 24.

[Toonage]

He also went out of his way to mention Hathaway and hoping to get something done but said he "doesn't work on the contracts" but Hathaway wanted to be here. That part stood out to me the most. Singling out Hathaway speaks to how highly they thought of him I think.

That being said, I hope they don't think so highly of him that he gets over $1M

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Toonage

He also went out of his way to mention Hathaway and hoping to get something done but said he "doesn't work on the contracts" but Hathaway wanted to be here. That part stood out to me the most. Singling out Hathaway speaks to how highly they thought of him I think.

That being said, I hope they don't think so highly of him that he gets over $1M

Yeah I get that he's a useful piece but teams should never fall in love with this type of player because you can't afford many Lance Bouma type over-payments in your salary cap structure. Hathaway is the type of player every team should be able to replace through their developmental system not free agency.

[Toonage]

I think they like him, but I think Treliving has also learned his lesson. At least I hope so. Seems every year there is some head scratching move made. Hope this isn't it.

[JJolg]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Gaudreau has to do all the heavy lifting on the line. Exiting the zone with the puck and entering the zone while still having control might be the hardest thing you can do. Not everyone has this skill except the very elite puckhandlers.

Ask yourself on a regular basis what Monahan does in a game, just skates and waits for Gaudreau to make a play, draw defenders and then hopes that he gets fed the puck wide open. That’s heavy lifting right there. Monahan isn’t capable of doing this for the rest of his linemates like elite centers can do. I’m not even sure he has the ability to create his own shot, that’s why most of his goals are scored within a few feet from the crease.

Also, to me, Monahan’a biggest problem is his play in the defensive zone. He’s big, but he plays just as soft as Gaudreau does. Can’t pin guys to the boards to stop the cycle, puck watches all the time and leaves his man wide open, too slow on the backcheck to break up odd man rushes. He looked completely invisible from February to April minus 2 games. I’m surprised you didn’t notice that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol you can't be soft and constantly setup in front of the net... Players that are soft avoid those areas.. I'm not a big fan of Monahan but this is ridiculous. It's also hard on all the guys on the ice to play d when johnny is flying the zone early.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by JJolg

Lol you can't be soft and constantly setup in front of the net... Players that are soft avoid those areas.. I'm not a big fan of Monahan but this is ridiculous. It's also hard on all the guys on the ice to play d when johnny is flying the zone early.

That play is made by design, you blow the zone early to force the defenseman to back out of the zone so they don’t pinch and it leads to a counter attack. Lots of teams deploy this tactic, you just need a fast winger to pull it off as they need to get behind the defenseman.

Also, as a winger, your main job is to take the point shot out of the play and get that puck out when it rims around your side which is not a strength of Gaudreau at all. But outside of that, I generally think he’s willing to back check hard when necessary whereas with Monahan, since he’s a center, naturally his defensive responsibilities are heightened and when because he has such a hard time getting back to defensive zone, he’s always chasing and I constantly see him puck watching and leaving his man open.

If this team had a #1 center with stronger defensive acumen, then we could match him up against the Mackinnons and the McDavids and not worry about sheltering his line by giving them so many offensive zone starts and easy situations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Harry Lime]

The more that I think on it, the more that I want to see :

Lindholm moved to centre the first line.
Bennett in the top six.
Mangiapane on the third line.
Dube centring the third line.

That makes Monahan, Frolik, and Jankowski expendable. Those three pieces can get you an impact player. And that's even before you start looking at Brodie and others on the back end.

If all you do is make those changes and add a top line impact RW, I think that this team goes from a great regular season-poor playoff team, to a very good regular season-great playoff team.

[Strange Brew]

I love Hathaway but he absolutely needs to be signed for six figures IMO.

This team needs to stop paying too much for players at the bottom of the roster.

[SportsJunky]

The Athletic has a Flames writers round table article on how the season finished. Eric D, Cruikshank, Wilson and Haynes. Most (all?) feel Neal needs to GO. They don’t seem to buy into his ability to rebound next year. There also looks to be consensus that Brodie and Frolik are the most likely to be moved. Zucker seems to be the player they’d expect Calgary might focus on.

[Toonage]

^ Great read. The strange part to me was the agreement on Brodie being moved but they reference an interview with Peters where he beams about Brodie and how fast he is and always in the play. Mixed signals.

[Roof-Daddy]

I've always felt this teams center depth was not legit Cup contender caliber.

Need an upgrade down the middle. Thats why I was surprised they put Lindholm on the wing. But then he clicked with the top line and the team won 50 games.

Maybe Lindholm can move to C now but I'm still not sold that he can be the line driving #1C this team needs. I sound like a broken record I know, but I still can't believe Treliving didn't get ROR when he was available. Blows my mind.

[TheKurgan]

^ I agree that ROR would have a been a awesome pickup, he signed a offer sheet to come here once so it probably was a real possibility. Oh well...

Anyways my two cents on 'curing the rot'

Out: Frolik (not happy about the way he is being used), Brodie (low hockey IQ but good skater and decent pts), Jankowski (no grit, passed by Ryan, lots of center depth), Neil (Big money, slow, under performer, will be very hard to unload)

In: Valimaki, Dube, UFA center like Hayes, Trade for Zucker (highly rumored), sign Lehner for your number 1 (not very likely but I can dream).

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

The Athletic has a Flames writers round table article on how the season finished. Eric D, Cruikshank, Wilson and Haynes. Most (all?) feel Neal needs to GO. They don’t seem to buy into his ability to rebound next year. There also looks to be consensus that Brodie and Frolik are the most likely to be moved. Zucker seems to be the player they’d expect Calgary might focus on.

it was good and i am glad they highlighted the issue of a lack of skilled wingers... Calgary has a serious dropoff coming up if they don't add some skill, imo, to the development ranks.

Also of note was mentioning how Peters believed this team is not fast enough and that they need to get quicker...

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I love Hathaway but he absolutely needs to be signed for six figures IMO.

This team needs to stop paying too much for players at the bottom of the roster.

Hathaway was making $850k, and he warrants something of a raise. I think an ideal figure is close to what Czarnik got - about $1.25 million. If you can get him for less, great. If more, one or two years max.

[Toonage]

$1.25m for Mangiapane
$950k max for Hathaway IMO

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

The more that I think on it, the more that I want to see :

Lindholm moved to centre the first line.
Bennett in the top six.
Mangiapane on the third line.
Dube centring the third line.

That makes Monahan, Frolik, and Jankowski expendable. Those three pieces can get you an impact player. And that's even before you start looking at Brodie and others on the back end.

If all you do is make those changes and add a top line impact RW, I think that this team goes from a great regular season-poor playoff team, to a very good regular season-great playoff team.

If you are moving Mony for an impact RW it better be a damn great one. Here is a crazy insane proposal, Mony, Frolik, Kylington, and our 1st for Pat Kane. Would never happen, I just want to see Gaudreau and Kane as an unstoppable force lol..

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

If you are moving Mony for an impact RW it better be a damn great one. Here is a crazy insane proposal, Mony, Frolik, Kylington, and our 1st for Pat Kane. Would never happen, I just want to see Gaudreau and Kane as an unstoppable force lol..

It would never happen.

if the Hawks and Kane decided he was going to be traded, it would not be to the Flames and would include one very young high end piece as the centre piece of the deal.

Kane drives a line, any line. Monny is likely only a PPG player playing with a Gaudreau or Kane type player. You put Monny on a 2nd line with a couple of average wingers and they get #2 PP time he's likely a 55 point guy. Now that's not bad per se, by he's not the front liner for a trade of one of the best players in the NHL.