Flames - how to cure the rot for 2019/20

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Husky

Another option is to offersheet rantanen. Second times a charm for OS Avs?

Offer sheets are for desperate teams.

Unless you pay more than what the player is worth, the other team matches your offer. And you don't want to overpay anyone in the cap era.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Husky

I would like to see the Flames utilize Lindholm as a center. And go for a legit top 6 rw.

Gaudreau - lindholm - bennett (or new guy)
Tkachuk - Monahan - new guy (or bennett)
Jankowski - Backlund - new guy (or prospect)
Magipane - Ryan - Hathaway (resign)

Unless mgt feels like Neal can contribute i think they should buy him out. Quickly move on.

Can’t buy out Neal. 8 years at 1.9 is too much for too long

Technically it is even better long term to trade, retain salary and eat up to 2 million for 4 years if you can find a taker

[Itse]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Can’t buy out Neal. 8 years at 1.9 is too much for too long

We now have $5.75M in cap hit locked for four seasons on a player that's barely playable. Any solution to this problem other than Neal becoming good is terrible. It's just a question of which flavor of terrible we choose. Buying him out is less terrible than not buying him out.

As long as the cap keeps going up, 1.9M is less and less every year. So the longer you spread something out the better.

Technically it is even better long term to trade, retain salary and eat up to 2 million for 4 years if you can find a taker

Agreed, but of course you have to find someone who wants to take a chance on Neal at 3.75M.

It's actually a reason why I think he should be traded sooner rather than later. Even a small step back and he becomes impossible to trade, but a small step forward isn't that likely to make him look significantly more attractive. The farther removed he is from his good years, the less likely it is that someone thinks he'll bounce back, and a slightly improved Neal still isn't worth 3.75M.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Itse

It's actually a reason why I think he should be traded sooner rather than later.

Good luck with that.

[btimbit]

If the Leafs can move Clarkson without having to retain, anything is possible I guess

[Husky]

Originally Posted by Itse

Offer sheets are for desperate teams.

Unless you pay more than what the player is worth, the other team matches your offer. And you don't want to overpay anyone in the cap era.

I don't quite agree. There are always a good and bad OS example. In highsight RoR would have been a great offer sheet at the price and pick the Flames were willing to give up.

I put Rantanen as a top 5RW in the league and looking to be top 3.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Husky

I don't quite agree. There are always a good and bad OS example. In highsight RoR would have been a great offer sheet at the price and pick the Flames were willing to give up.

I put Rantanen as a top 5RW in the league and looking to be top 3.

I love Rantanen, but that doesn't chanee the logic. Unless you offer sheet a player for more than he's worth, the other team will just match, and all you've done is gain some bad karma from other GMs. Really the other situation is if the other team is just short on cap space, but Dallas isn't worse off than we are.

[Husky]

Originally Posted by Itse

I love Rantanen, but that doesn't chanee the logic. Unless you offer sheet a player for more than he's worth, the other team will just match, and all you've done is gain some bad karma from other GMs. Really the other situation is if the other team is just short on cap space, but Dallas isn't worse off than we are.

Cap space keeps going up. So what seems like overpayment today is good value 2-3 years from now when similar players are signed for higher amounts.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Why do we want Point? He's smaller than Monahan and just as soft. His offensive numbers may also be inflated given his linemates. Sure he's a Calgary kid an a great skater. But centering Gaudreau I'm not sure what he brings?

Point is also excellent defensively and plays in all situations. I don't know why this notion that defensive ability = toughness is so hard to dispel.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Husky

Cap space keeps going up. So what seems like overpayment today is good value 2-3 years from now when similar players are signed for higher amounts.

And 4 years from now we still wouldn’t have had a 1st round pick...

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Husky

Cap space keeps going up. So what seems like overpayment today is good value 2-3 years from now when similar players are signed for higher amounts.

The other team can make that calculation too.

Dustin Penner to Anaheim back in 2007 is still the only offer sheet ever accepted in the cap era. There hasn't even been a signed offer sheet since the Flames offer to O'Reilly back in 2013. Offer sheets are not a real option, fans should just forget about them.

I also strongly suspect GM's have quietly agreed to just not offer them anymore.

[btimbit]

Yeah as far as I'm concerned offer sheets barely even exist. If it's for a reasonable amount the original team will just match it, only way to get the player is to way overpay and give up enough compensatory draft picks that likely also carry more value than the player.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Husky

Cap space keeps going up. So what seems like overpayment today is good value 2-3 years from now when similar players are signed for higher amounts.

Eek!

You should google the US Housing Bubble.

[David Struch]

Was it an offer sheet that Teemu Selanne signed with Calgary before coming to North America?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Was it an offer sheet that Teemu Selanne signed with Calgary before coming to North America?

Edit: well then, apparently yes. I guess I always had those years mixed up, I thought he had played one.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Was it an offer sheet that Teemu Selanne signed with Calgary before coming to North America?

Yes, but not quite the same as offer sheeting a RFA

[David Struch]

As Selänne had not yet signed a contract when he chose to play in North America for the 1992–93 season, he was considered a restricted free agent. The Calgary Flames signed him to an offer sheet on a three-year contract worth $2.7 million, $1.5 million higher than what the Jets had been offering. Though concerned about paying such a high salary, Winnipeg exercised its right to match the offer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teemu_Sel%C3%A4nne

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Point is also excellent defensively and plays in all situations. I don't know why this notion that defensive ability = toughness is so hard to dispel.

I like Monahan a lot and I think he gets overly criticized. But Point is a way better 200 foot player and much faster. The top line would suddenly be able to match up against other top lines. There's been a lot of talk about making Backlund a third line shutdown C. This only works if you have at least one other line that can go against top lines because you aren't getting the matchups and minutes from a third line against a top line consistently.

[FiveSeven]

If they can trade neal without sending out one of our good prospects, sure, do it. Unlikely though.

Otherwise I would give Neal another chance. I personally think he can easily recapture his 20 goal scoring prowess. If he does, great! If not then we can talk about buyouts. I don't think owners would want to cut ties to their investment without seeing if it can turn itself around.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

If they can trade neal without sending out one of our good prospects, sure, do it. Unlikely though.

Otherwise I would give Neal another chance. I personally think he can easily recapture his 20 goal scoring prowess. If he does, great! If not then we can talk about buyouts. I don't think owners would want to cut ties to their investment without seeing if it can turn itself around.

I doubt they move Neal without at least giving him 20 games or so to see if he can regain the form. If he can earn a better lineup spot in training camp, I could see him doing so. He strikes me as a guy who needs more than 3rd line minutes to get in gear. Some guys need ice time for their style to work (Tkachuk and Gaudreau are that type IMO). Some work better with the minutes cut down (say, Mangiapane or Ryan, or back in the day, Phaneuf).