Flames - how to cure the rot for 2019/20

[442scotty]

Hayes had a chance to come to Calgary right out of college and didn’t want to come here. People seem to forget this.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

No idea how the cap works on all the above lol.

then why even bother?

gaudreau - beliveau - brodeur


no idea how space and time work lol

[CGY12]

If we are going to play pretend GM

Frolik for Zucker
Brodie for Hoffman
Monahan + 1st for Pointe
Sign Brock Nelson
Neal to NYI (retain salary)
Jankowski for a pick

Guadreau Pointe Hoffman
Tkachuk Lindholm Nelson
Zucker Backlund Bennett
Dube Ryan Mangipane
Hathaway

Giordano Andersson
Hanifin Hamonic
Kylington Valamaki
Stone

Add speed, grit, size and puck carriers.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

He's not a #1, but he's probably a better 5 on 5 partner for Gaudreau than Monahan. Monahan could still play on PP1.



Agreed that Johansen is overrated. However, he does demonstrate the difficulty in acquiring a true #1C. Nashville gave up a stud, Norris-consideration D-man to try to get their #1C and they have a #2C instead.

So Poile has tried to address the issue with depth: Johansen - Turris - Bonino - Sissons. I think the Flames might have to do the same. Jankowski is a weak link. He's not fast or dynamic, and he looked awful in the playoffs - probably the Flames' worst forward (besides Neal). Hayes - Monahan - Backlund - Ryan would be a big improvement.

IMO nashville is illustrating that quantity doesn't supplant quality.

Centre Production By Committee only works if you have 4 of your top 10 scorers as defenders with elite, suffocating team defense from your wingers.

I don't see Calgary's group of players being able to pull that off.

Nashville is about to lose to a team with a bonafide #1.

Seguin has 5 points, 2 goals, 3 assists.

Nashville's top scorers in the playoffs this year:

Josi 4 points
Grimaldi 3 points (all goals)
Ryan ellis 3 points
Subban 2 points

[Robbob]

Zucker will not willingly want to leave Minnesota for personal reasons, it was brought up at the deadline.

[Corral]

The Flames will go nowhere playing musical chairs with top players and trades with other teams. fans seem to overlook the fact that what you pick up in a trade has been made available precisely because there are perceived problems those players by their current team. Its odd that people who will spend hours parsing thru advance stats themselves, somehow think the Flames can 'steal' someone else's top players in a trade. No way. Every team knows all the good and the bad with every player in the NHL. Trades are how you get your supporting cast. Treliving did well last summer to bring a real supporting case to the core of JG, SM, MT, SB TH, TJ and MG.

What they missed this year in round one was what Neal was supposed to bring. I suppose signing him to a 5 year deal was necessary because of his leverage as a UFA, and i think at this point we have to hope that works out better than it did this year.

Patience is the key.

[Joborule]

If Flames could manage to land Hayes or an equivalent top 6 centre that can carry the puck, trade Brodie for a early round pick plus a mid 6 forward, give Bennett top 6 play which he success in, and Neal by some miracle has a season that brings him closer to the 20 goal mark if he stays (which most likely will), then Flames likely will have another great season, and a stronger performance in the playoffs.

Flames have 4 top 6 forwards right now. They need to fill it up to have at least 6. If they could pull off having more than 6, that means the team would have great forward depth which goes a long way. Players that can tween playing between 1st line and 2nd line, and between 2nd line and 3rd line will give the team flexibility when injuries come into play. Flames were fortunate this season that none of the top 6 players had any injuries that kept them off the ice for a period of time.

[topfiverecords]

Keep:
F: Lindholm, Tkachuk, Backlund, Bennett, Hathaway, Ryan, Mangiapane
D: Andersson, Hanifin, Hamonic, Valimaki, Fantenberg
G: Rittich

Replace:
F: Gaudreau, Monahan, Frolik, Jankowski, Neal, Czarnik
D: Brodie, Stone
G: Smith

Graduate to full time:
F: Dube
D: Kylington

Maybe keep, maybe don’t:
Quine, Prout

Give legendary player chance to play on cup contender before his career ends:
D: Giordano

[daveinspruce]

We can trade scared ####less in the playoffs Johnny for a kings ransom.
He wants to go home,ok.
Trade him to NJ for their first overall and Taylor Hall

[FlamesAddiction]

We have a very talented roster, but they lack size and intensity. It’s not like management needs to clean house, but for sure there needs to be a few changes.

I know it has become cliche, but it is a process. A lesson was learned in the playoffs that I am sure Treliving will take to heart. But this was something that had to play out.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Keep:
F: Lindholm, Tkachuk, Backlund, Bennett, Hathaway, Ryan, Mangiapane
D: Andersson, Hanifin, Hamonic, Valimaki, Fantenberg
G: Rittich

Replace:
F: Gaudreau, Monahan, Frolik, Jankowski, Neal, Czarnik
D: Brodie, Stone
G: Smith

Graduate to full time:
F: Dube
D: Kylington

Maybe keep, maybe don’t:
Quine, Prout

Give legendary player chance to play on cup contender before his career ends:
D: Giordano

Draft 1st overall. Christ, people have lost their minds! This is a very young team just starting to realize their potential, relax!

[Strange Brew]

I absolutely agree that elite talent is what wins. Full stop.

But going from wanting to be all in on deadline day to blowing it up 2 months later?

If Stone is all it would take to turn is from pretenders to contenders then let’s get another Stone.

This team may never turn out to be championship level but I’m not ready to blow it up yet. The regular season was a major step forward and I’m willing to see if that was in fact legitimate.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by daveinspruce

We can trade scared ####less in the playoffs Johnny for a kings ransom.
He wants to go home,ok.
Trade him to NJ for their first overall and Taylor Hall

Not often you have to add the 1st overall to the league MVP in a trade package to get back one player.

I would round this out and throw in Neal if they are willing to throw in Hischier. Give the Devils a little grit to go with the playmaking of Johnny.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by daveinspruce

We can trade scared ####less in the playoffs Johnny for a kings ransom.
He wants to go home,ok.
Trade him to NJ for their first overall and Taylor Hall

LOL. Tre would need to actually be a wizard.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I absolutely agree that elite talent is what wins. Full stop.

But going from wanting to be all in on deadline day to blowing it up 2 months later?

If Stone is all it would take to turn is from pretenders to contenders then let’s get another Stone.

This team may never turn out to be championship level but I’m not ready to blow it up yet. The regular season was a major step forward and I’m willing to see if that was in fact legitimate.

Top 5 wingers don't come around every day.

There was an option at the deadline to negate the lack of development of bennett with a trade for a winger every bit as good if not better than Gaudreau.

IMO, yes, if you can get a player like that, by all means, go all in on Winning now. Trade Valimaki for the best top 6 in the league and play out the remaining years of Gaudreau and Monahan's deals knowing you've added a player that excels in the specific areas those guys lack. If there's an option to grab Kucherov or Marner or Pastrnak for a 1st rounder and a prospect, sure, pull the trigger, but I don't think those deals are out there. But one of them was at the deadline.

It was a team building home run.

'Blowing it up' has such a ludicrous connotation to it. Teams add and subtract players, good players, all the time. If you can grab Seguin or Kopitar or Getzlaf or Matthews, by all means, pull the trigger, but again, I don't think those deals are out there.

So if those deals aren't out there, take a steady pragmatic approach to accumulating assets in the next 2-3 years as guys slowly play out their existing contracts and then shoot for the moon again.

IMO this season comes down to Giordano. If he's not a Norris trophy point per game player, this lineup is not a 2nd place club, and hey, maybe he once against defies all historical trends and has a repeat performance next year, but I don't think it's something you can count on.

This was the year for this team IMO and now you get back to the nitty gritty of building a contender over the long term.

[blender]

Here's a thought. The Neal signing is proof that Treliving is a good GM.
I know. Doesn't make sense, but if you assume that the goal was to acquire a veteran, gritty, playoff performer it follows that Treliving recognized that was indeed what the Flames were lacking. The fact that Neal failed to deliver is still on Treliving, but he had the right idea. I would suggest that the pro scouts are taking some heat internally at this point.
Just something that I was thinking about.

[Strange Brew]

Double post

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

People penciling Hayes in as a top line center. Is he really a top line center? His numbers sure dont support the claim, but I never watch him play.

My suggestions are more for cost to attain and chemistry. I could say I want Malkin or Barkov or Duchene or Seguin but the cost to sign or trade for these players would leave such a big hole in the roster I think we would be in the same spot. Kunitz wasnt a 1C but he complimented his line. Id argue Toews was pretty overrated to but he complimented Kane. Its more about fit and cost then his name being sexy. The team was great except against teams that took away time and space, You add Hayes, Connolly, and either Maroon or Williams you get playoff performers that address that issue. Washington got heavier to go with their skill players. I think a mix like that could work for us to.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

then why even bother?

gaudreau - beliveau - brodeur


no idea how space and time work lol

Never been impressed with Brodeur’s ability to score when it counts. Hard pass on this proposal.

[TheScorpion]

I really wonder if Vincent Trocheck would be available in Florida. I think he exactly fills the intensity quotient that Calgary needs.