Flames - how to cure the rot for 2019/20

[David Struch]

Flames will be back better than ever next season... (minus some dead weight)

Gaudreau - Monahan - Zucker
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Czarnik
Dubé - Backlund - Bennett
Mangiapane - Ryan - Hathaway

Giordano - Andersson
Hanifin - Hamonic
Välimäki - Kylington

Rittich
Zagidulin

[Yoho]

Switch Bennett and Czarnik.

[FlamesNation23]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Flames will be back better than ever next season... (minus some dead weight)

Gaudreau - Monahan - Zucker
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Czarnik
Dubé - Backlund - Bennett
Mangiapane - Ryan - Hathaway

Giordano - Andersson
Hanifin - Hamonic
Välimäki - Kylington

Rittich
Zagidulin

Do we really believe that lineup will do any more damage in the playoffs than the current group? This core needs a shakeup imo. Trade mony/gaudreau and try to sign duchene/panarin depending on who gets traded

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

No just... just no. People need to stop using this as a talking point. Smith is the sole reason the Flames didn't get blown out in games 2 and 4, and to ignore that fact is just silly. Also, no guarantee of winning game 1 either, if not for quite a number of ten bell saves in that game.


Nope, sorry. If they want to be treated with respect, they should have played like they wanted it.

So your argument is the players didn’t want it? That might be true I’m a game in the middle of January. But you can’t look at the frustration they showed on the bench and say they didn’t want it.

They dominated the last two periods of game 1. Game 2 they were outplayed by the makainnon line but won the rest of the matchups. It was much closer than you are giving them credit for.

[memphusk]

And Zucker isn't making a difference. I bet Treliving is thanking his lucky stars that move didn't pan out.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by FlamesNation23

Do we really believe that lineup will do any more damage in the playoffs than the current group? This core needs a shakeup imo. Trade mony/gaudreau and try to sign duchene/panarin depending on who gets traded

Duchene has been poison to teams that he has played on and will be 29 wanting 8 years over $8M. Panarin is pure fantasy and zero chance he comes here.

The Flames made a massive core trade last summer. If they move some bodies this summer I highly doubt Gaudreau or Monahan are one of them.

[FlamesNation23]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Duchene has been poison to teams that he has played on and will be 29 wanting 8 years over $8M. Panarin is pure fantasy and zero chance he comes here.

The Flames made a massive core trade last summer. If they move some bodies this summer I highly doubt Gaudreau or Monahan are one of them.

So i guess we are just going to ignore how good duchene has been for the blue jackets in the playoffs eh

[calgarygeologist]

I mentioned this last night but I think Brad Treliving needs to stop being so passive at the trade deadline and acquire some rental players to fill gaps and provide the neccesary support for a playoff run. If the Flames are in a playoff position next year the top guys need to evaluate the line up, identify the weakness and make some moves. I get the feeling that instead of making moves and helping the team he supports his existing pieces too much and believes that they can shift roles for a playoff run.

That strategy has not worked and will not work. I know that many folks here don't necessarily like the idea of rentals for the playoffs but it is an approach that has worked before elsewhere.

Look (https://www.nhl.com/news/2018-19-nhl-trades/c-289968698) at all the work that teams like Winnipeg, Columbus, Nashville and Dallas did going into the stretch and playoffs. Are they better because of it and are they seeing playoff success? In my opinion, yes.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by FlamesNation23

So i guess we are just going to ignore how good duchene has been for the blue jackets in the playoffs eh

4 games just washes the past away eh?

2 years ago Monahan scored in every playoff game, is one of the franchise leaders in OT goals and has been clutch in the past but we look at the last 2 months and write him off?

Let’s sign a guy 4 years older to a cap hit $2M higher. He had 70pts this year and the last time he did that was when Monahan was a rookie and in the 5 years since Monahan has outscored him every season including this year

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I mentioned this last night but I think Brad Treliving needs to stop being so passive at the trade deadline and acquire some rental players to fill gaps and provide the neccesary support for a playoff run. If the Flames are in a playoff position next year the top guys need to evaluate the line up, identify the weakness and make some moves. I get the feeling that instead of making moves and helping the team he supports his existing pieces too much and believes that they can shift roles for a playoff run.

That strategy has not worked and will not work. I know that many folks here don't necessarily like the idea of rentals for the playoffs but it is an approach that has worked before elsewhere.

By all accounts the flames were deep on many players at the deadline. Rumored asks of Valimaki, Andersson, ++ for Stone. The Zucker trade that fell through. Rumors that Edler and Simmonds refused to waive NTC’s to come here.

Depending on what Treliving does this summer the team should have more assets to play with next deadline. Moving 3 picks for Hamonic, a 2nd for Lazar really took a bite out of the prospect pool to make moves.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

I need to understand why the Flames lost their mojo after the All Star break before I contemplate changes to the lineup.

Because that's when games become tighter-checking, and our star forwards have real difficult fighting through that type of play. There also might be an issue of some core players who lack fitness.

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Let's gauge the Flames by how the Av's perform in the rest of their playoffs. If Av's get swept second round then Flames really suck. If Av's win the Cup then maybe we weren't as bad as it seemed.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

By all accounts the flames were deep on many players at the deadline. Rumored asks of Valimaki, Andersson, ++ for Stone. The Zucker trade that fell through. Rumors that Edler and Simmonds refused to waive NTC’s to come here.

Depending on what Treliving does this summer the team should have more assets to play with next deadline. Moving 3 picks for Hamonic, a 2nd for Lazar really took a bite out of the prospect pool to make moves.

Big Game Hunting!

Open For Business!

I like Brad treliving, but this is his team. It's asset poor because he spent the assets. It's cap hell because he spent the cap.

You can't win games paying guys 9 million bucks to sit in the press box.

It's going to cost even more assets to move that money out.

Moving Hamilton for Lindholm and hanifin is a trade that doesn't come around every day. The core asset base needs replenishment after years of deficit spending.

Mark Stone leads the playoffs in scoring. Kevin Hayes has 2 goals in 5 games. Matt Duchene has 7 points in 4 games.

All available at the deadline.

Fantenberg I guess is a marginal step up on Modin.

[442scotty]

Originally Posted by Bonded

What can you get for Monahan that is better though

I think Monahan needs to get away from Gaudreau in order to grow his own personal game. He has become a one trick pony following Gaudreau around trying to get open. I think, as great as Gaudreau is, if you can trade him to Jersey for 1st overall plus then you do it. Or to Philly for the right deal. I think Johnny is hard to play with or maybe he just needs a centre who can drive the play.

[CliffFletcher]

As a fan of 33 years, I don't even get upset at these playoff collapses anymore. Choking is in the makeup of the franchise, transmitted from roster to roster like venereal crabs in a dormitory couch.

So once again, let's play the How to Fix This Team in the Offseason game.

Gaudreau: He's taking a lot of unwarranted criticism. He tried to drive play. He backchecked. He played hard. But the game is called differently in the playoffs, and teams are always going to key on him. He simply isn't strong enough to power through the checks when games get tight. It is what it is. Johnny needs help. He needs another dynamic player on his line who can sometimes gain the zone and take some of the heat off him. He doesn't have it now.

The Flames should not be shopping him. But they should listen to any offers from the obvious teams out east. He may be worth more to a team trying to sell tickets than his is to the Flames.

For his part, Gaudreau could help his cause by starting to take diet and training seriously. He has enough disadvantages in the NHL without compounding them with those of his own making.

Monahan: A pure sniper who brings almost nothing to the game when he isn't sniping. When your #1C is the worst forward on your roster without the puck, you have a problem. A serious problem.

It's not easy to acquire a true #1C. A couple changed hands over the last year (O'Reilly, Duchene), so there's always a chance. Maybe a Seguin or Stamkos comes available. But the Flames might need to address the C position with depth instead, like the Preds have.

If the Flames do decide to move on from Monahan, his contract will certainly make him attractive, especially to teams with low payroll budgets (Arizona, Carolina, Anaheim). Of course, teams are going to wonder how much of Monahan's production has been down to playing with Gaudreau.

Goaltending: Was this Smith's swan song, or do the Flames re-sign him for another season until they know what they have in Rittich? This position is still clear as mud. The Coyotes might be willing to let one of Raanta or Kuemper go, given the strong play both have shown.

Coaching: Peters did a great job with this team, bringing structure that played to the strengths of the roster. Never let the team fall into a long swoon. But he was schooled by Bednar in this series. He had no solution to the Avs forecheck that disrupted any efforts to transition the pucks to forward with speed. He had four games to figure out counter-tactics, and failed.

This was his first playoffs as a head coach. Hopefully he'll learn how to gameplan for a series and adapt once the series gets underway.

Treliving: Has enough playoff games with this core to identify where the weaknesses are. Heat seems to be on from ownership, so expect his moves to be of the Win Now kind. I'm skeptical we'll be making a pick in the first round.

Move on from: Brodie will find a home somewhere, either for picks or as part of a package for a centre. Seems like Peters isn't a fan of Frolik, so expect him to be moved. Jankowski does not seem able to elevate his game, and PK specialists need to bring some energy to their game 5 on 5. Neal is unmovable.

Targets: Kevin Hayes, Nazim Kadri, Jason Zucker, Darcy Kuemper.

[Itse]

Just to collect my thoughts somewhere...

There are definitely positives.

Our core is still young. Our cap situation isn't too bad. Neals deal is terrible, but it's mitigated quite a bit by other contracts being generally just fine.

Kylington, Välimäki and Andersson all had very promising rookie seasons, and Hanifin showed flashes of really high potential. We probably need to trade one our young D-men, or Brodie, but any one of them should bring pretty good value back.

Frolik is likely going to get moved at some point, and there's likely to be a GM out there who really likes what he brings.

Rittich showed a lot of potential, and Smith made a big rebound, so it's not absolutely disastrous if they're still our goalies next season. (Rittich moving up to #1 hopefully.) While our goalie prospects didn't have great seasons, at least we have several coming up.

We seem to have become a fairly attractive destination for undrafted/college players.

The upside of the playoff collapse is that Treliving probably gets a fairly free reign to make the changes he sees as necessary. Nobody in Calgary is going to argue that changing things up is pointless. With a lot of players having career years, if Treliving decides to trade someone from the core, we should be selling high. Only Giordano has a full NTC, and most players don't even have a modified NTC, which gives Treliving a lot of options.

While there's no blue chip prospects, we still have most of our picks, and a few decent forwards prospects to allow for growth from within that way.

A lot of our guys are of the hardworking and smart type. I'm for example sure that Matthew Tkachuk is now thinking how he needs to develop his game to make a bigger impact next year.

What happened in the playoffs was only a statement on where the team is now, not what it's ceiling is.

[locsofblu]

This team is going nowhere with Monahan as your #1 center. I used to defend the guy but the last few months have been the absolute worst I've seen in him. During a scrum when Gaudreau was being head locked you would think it would kind of light a fire with Monahan but he absolutely did nothing. The guy is a real loser with zero intensity or compete. Gaudreau wasn't that much better either in a lot of those games. You may be Johnny Hockey during the regular season but you turn into Johnny Fluffy In the playoffs. The only bonus is that they are on good NHL contracts but I just don't see them taking this team to the next level. Tre's got some tough choices to make come the summer.

[Hockey_Ninja]

All of you guys writing up proposals to trade Johnny and Monny are gonna be severely dissapointed when they're both still Flames next season.

[Fire]

If the Flames can't find another center they need to try Lindholm as the guy with Tkachuk on the right wing. Lindholm is a much better overall player than Monahan.

[locsofblu]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

All of you guys writing up proposals to trade Johnny and Monny are gonna be severely dissapointed when they're both still Flames next season.

I'd be very surprised if they were traded but you would have to expect the same result as things probably won't magically change. Since the All-star break something happened to this group. Now it's up to Tre to figure it out and fix it and hopefully get us to the next step.