Can the Flames win a cup with Johnny Hockey as the man ?

[Angelino]

Flames can win with Gaudreau as "the man", I do not think they can win with Monahan as their number one center however.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I think you are misunderstanding what drives most elite athletes. For the most part, they're not interested in slinking away into obscurity.

There are a few...most guys would like to go to the grocery store without being told what a wuss they are.

Most high end free agents go to places where hockey isn't #1

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by blender

I feel you can talk about whatever you want as it is after all a forum, but I can see SB's point. Support your team unconditionally at this moment and save the trade talk for after the season is over.

I guess. Easy to stay out of the thread for those that want to.

[DazzlinDino]

Last season when Johnny and Monahan were struggling a lot of people didn't realize Monahan was injured. Makes .e wonder if Monahan has another injury. If somethings off on the top line the coach needs to shake it up.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

This thread is a hot mess lol
We just need him and Moneyhands to wake up as they did pre all Star break.... It's not like it was a fluke

No it wasn't a fluke, it was simply early season hockey. There's a big difference in the way games are played the closer to the playoffs you get, and we saw the top line shrivel as the games became tougher. It's not about waking up, I just honestly don't think Monahan and Gaudreau have the extra gear needed to win at this time of year

[Bourque's Twin]

I thought Johnny, at times, has looked like a much more mature and focused player this season. However, these playoffs he is complaining every step of the way rather than fighting through the adversity. He’s still a young player and needs to mature, but he’s getting to the point where it has to happen quickly.

Monahan is injured for sure. He always dominates at the start of the season when he’s healthy. Is he elite? Maybe not. But he’s consistently a big goal scorer. I just think he’s injured.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

I thought Johnny, at times, has looked like a much more mature and focused player this season. However, these playoffs he is complaining every step of the way rather than fighting through the adversity. He’s still a young player and needs to mature, but he’s getting to the point where it has to happen quickly.



Monahan is injured for sure. He always dominates at the start of the season when he’s healthy. Is he elite? Maybe not. But he’s consistently a big goal scorer. I just think he’s injured.

Though he's not that young anymore. 26 this summer and 5 full seasons under his belt. As you say the maturing has to start now. This year and next few are his peak years

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by blender

If last off season's trade has taught us anything it's that it is useless to try and predict what a roster will look like next season, forget about 2 or 3 seasons out.

Some of us speculated with relative accuracy which players the flames would move out and what they would acquire in return.

It's up to individual posters to figure out who they are and whether they may prove accurate again.

[useyourhead]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Kane also has a 10X better shot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kane also has Toews

[Strange Brew]

Can you win with Johnny on your team? I have little doubt
Can you win with Johnny on your team at $6 million per? Hell yeah
Can you win if Johnny is your best player? We have two playoff rounds as evidence. Working on the third.

[dino7c]

To be fair the Flames never won with Iggy being their best player either*

Takes a team to win a cup

[Kovaz]

I think it's less about Gaudreau or Monahan as individuals and more about them as a pair. They both have a pretty rigidly-defined niche that they like to stay in, whereas other star players are more versatile in how they create offense. In the playoffs, a team can double team Gaudreau in the neutral zone, or key on Monahan in the slot, so you need them to adapt and find other ways to score.

For example, Ovechkin and Backstrom have a similar playmaker-scorer dynamic that they can run with all season, but in the playoffs they can still score goals like this. When was the last time we saw Monahan create an opening with the puck on his stick? When was the last time we saw Gaudreau work to get open in a dangerous area?

I think they can figure it out, but they can't get there if Gaudreau's just focusing on how to rush the puck better, and Monahan's just focusing on how to slip away from coverage in the slot better.

[Displaced Flames fan]

This is what they used to ask about Steve Yzerman and OV just to name a couple.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by madmike

The real problem is Monahan. He’s not a bad player, but he’s not a true number one centre. He’s slow and not very creative with the puck. He does have a great shot and he’s decent value for what the Flames are paying him. But he’s one of the weaker number one Cs in the league.

There’s no easy fix unfortunately. Number one Cs don’t grow on trees.

what do you mean, apparently the Oilers have 3 of them?

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

This is what they used to ask about Steve Yzerman and OV just to name a couple.

Yes, and Stamkos is likely feeling the heat right now as well.

[Classic_Sniper]

Having watched other series this post season and catching that Tomas Hertl and Logan Couture show yesterday where they willed SJS to victory from the brink of elimination, I’m more than convinced the Flames do not have the right centers to carry the Flames deep.

In order to win a Stanley Cup in the NHL or at least to go deep, you need great Center-men. Game breakers that can take games over like a Mackinnon, a Scheifele, a Hertl, a Couture, a Kuznetsov, and etc. Some of these teams even have 2 top line centers.

Look at the last Stanley Cup Winning #1 Centers (since lockout): Staal, Getzlaf, Datsyuk, Crosby, Toews, Bergeron, Kopitar, Toews, Kopitar, Toews, Crosby, Crosby, Kuznetsov

I’m just not sure Monahan and Backlund are at the same level and that puts this team at a major disadvantage to start. They tend to be overwhelmed by other great centers and might be why this team seems to wilt in games on the big stage. When the 2 best forwards on your team are wingers (Gaudreau, Tkachuk), that’s not the recipe for long term winning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

Yes, and Stamkos is likely feeling the heat right now as well.

2 conference finals appearances and a stanley cup appearance says probably not.

[dammage79]

I dont think Johnny can be the man holding the flag to a cup. Long story short. Mentally he can't deal with the pressure. Ferraro booked him on it last game.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

2 conference finals appearances and a stanley cup appearance says probably not.

Tampa fans are crushing Stamkos’ right now and questioning his leadership and playoff performances lately. That’s what all fans do when they lose, they beat down on their star players.

Canada is the worst at that which is why Canadian teams are always on No Trade Lists.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blender]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Having watched other series this post season and catching that Tomas Hertl and Logan Couture show yesterday where they willed SJS to victory from the brink of elimination, I’m more than convinced the Flames do not have the right centers to carry the Flames deep.

In order to win a Stanley Cup in the NHL or at least to go deep, you need great Center-men. Game breakers that can take games over like a Mackinnon, a Scheifele, a Hertl, a Couture, a Kuznetsov, and etc. Some of these teams even have 2 top line centers.

Look at the last Stanley Cup Winning #1 Centers (since lockout): Staal, Getzlaf, Datsyuk, Crosby, Toews, Bergeron, Kopitar, Toews, Kopitar, Toews, Crosby, Crosby, Kuznetsov

I’m just not sure Monahan and Backlund are at the same level and that puts this team at a major disadvantage to start. They tend to be overwhelmed by other great centers and might be why this team seems to wilt in games on the big stage. When the 2 best forwards on your team are wingers (Gaudreau, Tkachuk), that’s not the recipe for long term winning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oversimplification IMO.
By that standard most of the league is at a disadvantage.
Your list of great centers doesn't have a cup winner other than Kuznetsov, and the past winners list is basically 4 guys.
Also, Crosby and Malkin were swept this year, Staal and Getzlaf have only won once.
I get your point that Monahan may not be a good enough pivot to lead Calgary to the promised land. I don't disagree. But your argument just doesn't hold enough value for me. Hockey is too much of a team game.