Can the Flames win a cup with Johnny Hockey as the man ?

[Classic_Sniper]

I see a lot of people saying in here that he "tries too hard," has anyone actually thought for a second about why he tries too hard? Like, when was the last time someone saw Monahan or Lindholm exit the defensive zone with the puck and enter the offensive zone with the puck, create space and find Johnny Gaudreau for an easy finish? Can anyone tell me the last time this has happened? Because I can't. The closest was when Derek Ryan fed Gaudreau for the one timer vs Columbus a month ago.

There's a reason why his linemates always defer to him. It's because he's the only one on his line that can do that. If you get rid of this asset, then you instantly lose the ability to score goals at anything close to the same rate. Lindholm will be back to being a 40 point guy, Monahan would never hit 30 goals again and this team probably wouldn't make the playoffs because they'd be one of the lowest scoring teams.

I believe that #13 can be a playoff producer, maybe not at his typical regular season clip, but solid contributor. He just can't be the only guy teams key on. Look at McDavid and Draisaitl, the 2 are unstoppable together, but apart, they both struggle to maintain the same rate because they lack another driver of play. That's all Gaudreau is missing in my opinion, is another driver of play. Monahan and Lindholm aren't those types of guys, they're support pieces.

[Buff]

Gaudreau has elite talent but he doesn't have the heart to be the guy who carries the team on his back. I think he would have more success if we had an elite center to drive the line and/or carry the team.

Monahan can score goals and could be a #1 center who performed in the playoffs if he was surrounded by two wingers who could carry a team. Alas, Monahan is likely just a very good 2nd line center who doesn't look too out of place on the 1st line during the regular season. I'd like to see if he has another injury before completely writing him off, but the way he has looked since the week off has not been good. Even a bit early in the season there was some fans concerned with how he looked but he was getting points. Either he doesn't have that extra drive to be a difference maker in big games or his body is always hurt and he's going to retire early because his body won't let him play long.

[VladtheImpaler]

JG has to go through that Yzerman "revelation" - what can I do to become a winner? Proper diet, commitment to fitness, and commitment to playing defense. Can he do it? Sure, and I am sure the team has and will talk to him about it. Will he do it? I don't know.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Bonded

It is really too bad that Bennett didn't turn out to be a top 6 centre. His projections are exactly what we are missing.

It doesn't look like he has the skill to be elite in the NHL. His success in junior looks like he was just too much of a beast at his age and therefore able to dominate.

Too bad he didn't become that 90+ point dominant center we all wanted. He is still valuable to this team though. Now that I'm over him not becoming that guy, I have grown to really like his game and what he brings to the table.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Bonded

100% but who trades a Barkov for Gaudreau?

Hopefully Dale Tallon. With them projected to be Panarin's preferred destination in free agency, they may want to keep Barkov though.

[Beninho]

The issue is the flames are already finished their rebuild. Gaining a first line C or another play driver is going to be exceedingly difficult without moving out major parts of the team and draft picks.


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[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Buff

Hopefully Dale Tallon. With them projected to be Panarin's preferred destination in free agency, they may want to keep Barkov though.

No GM would trade Barkov for Johnny.

Barkov is 2 years younger, a big centre and much harder to contain.

As Flames fans we all have a certain affinity towards Johnny, but he doesn't have close to Barkov's value.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

He was over a point per game player this year. He IS a good player. He’s just playing unbelievably poorly right now.

Not sure trading him is the answer. Who will step in to replace him? You don’t typically get a McDavid/Crosby/MacKinnon type player unless you draft in the top two, and I think it’s fairly safe to say we won’t be doing that any time soon. I don’t think any free agents will be much better, and nobody on earth is going to trade a centreman who’s better than Monahan.

Monahan is a really good player and he’s the best we have right now. It’s unforunate that we don’t have an elite centreman but few teams do. He’s still a #1C by almost every metric, and yes he’s on the low end of that for sure but he’s still a #1C. The issue with him right now isn’t talent, it’s 100% his compete level. Same goes for Johnny. I don’t see players that aren’t talented, I see players that aren’t interested which might be more concerning.

Monahan said he played lacrosse which is odd because he sure as hell doesn’t play like a lacrosse player.

I would argue that Lindholm would be a much better #1C than Monahan at this point. At least with him you get a guy who will play with a bit of an edge and isn't afraid to get his nose dirty....even a little. You might give up 5-10 goals a season, but you'd make up for that in spades with the overall jam and 3 zone play Lindholm can provide.

You certainly could hope you can get a top line winger back in return for Monahan, but the book is likely out on him being an incredibly flawed, 1 dimensional player and that will limit his value considerably. If I were looking at Monahan in a trade, I'd be pretty concerned he is nothing more than a 50-60 point guy if he's not spoon fed 1 PP ice time with an elite playmaker like Johnny. It's also really hard to fix compete level in a guy like Monahan and there won't be many teams that are jumping at the chance he suddenly is ready to battle on the ice when the games are important even if he does put up 70 point regular seasons with regularity.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

No GM would trade Barkov for Johnny.

Barkov is 2 years younger, a big centre and much harder to contain.

As Flames fans we all have a certain affinity towards Johnny, but he doesn't have close to Barkov's value.

No GM?

You ever heard of Peter Chiarelli?

Mike Milbury? Doug Risebrough? Garth Snow?

[flames_fan_down_under]

No. Monahan is not a top line centre who dictates the pace of a game, drives offence and has a defensive acumen. Great shot, slow and soft.

Gaudreau is too small and this unbelievable performance is all the evidence I need really. He is circling the blue line while the rest of his teammates are sweating their bags off trying to get the puck out of their zone.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Sure, Gaudreau is small by NHL standards, but so is Artemi Panarin, and he seems to be able to be effective in the playoffs.

Skating away from that stick in the face and ignoring the puck tells you all you need to know about his compete level right now.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Rando

Think you move both in separate deals. Gaudreau to the Rangers for Mika Zibanejad, Filip Chytil 1st + 2nd?

I'm not convinced the Rangers move even Zib alone for Johnny.

Big skilled centre man who scored 30 goals and 74 points last year.

They certainly wouldn't include a bunch of cheap premium stuff with him.

The rangers would covet Zib for the same reasons why you do.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Beninho

The issue is the flames are already finished their rebuild. Gaining a first line C or another play driver is going to be exceedingly difficult without moving out major parts of the team and draft picks.

Yeah, we basically need to get lucky in the draft at this point. I want too see a draft that is all centers and RWs this year haha

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I would argue that Lindholm would be a much better #1C than Monahan at this point. At least with him you get a guy who will play with a bit of an edge and isn't afraid to get his nose dirty....even a little. You might give up 5-10 goals a season, but you'd make up for that in spades with the overall jam and 3 zone play Lindholm can provide.
.

Peters doesn't seem to trust Lindholm as a center. I think the natural switch is to flip Monahan and Lindholm.

I prefer to split up those three completely in the last game.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

JG has to go through that Yzerman "revelation" - what can I do to become a winner? Proper diet, commitment to fitness, and commitment to playing defense. Can he do it? Sure, and I am sure the team has and will talk to him about it. Will he do it? I don't know.

Yup, exactly this.

That's basically my view for the vast majority of the team as well. I want to see the 1000 yard stares at the end of this series.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

No. Monahan is not a top line centre who dictates the pace of a game, drives offence and has a defensive acumen. Great shot, slow and soft.

Gaudreau is too small and this unbelievable performance is all the evidence I need really. He is circling the blue line while the rest of his teammates are sweating their bags off trying to get the puck out of their zone.

That's the other thing with Gaudreau. He's always looking for a penalty. He's always shaking his hand. He stops skating, complains to the ref, shakes his hand and skates slowly until he realizes he's out of position or he's at the bench. He's got to learn to just suck it up. He has developed a reputation with the refs and they're not going to listen to him. He looked better when he stopped that crap, but he has reverted back to whining to the refs.

Learn how to suck it up and don't look back. If you're really hurt and can't play then get off the ice. I'm pretty sure when your hand is hurt from a slash that it doesn't inhibit your ability to get to the bench at a snails pace.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Sure, Gaudreau is small by NHL standards, but so is Artemi Panarin, and he seems to be able to be effective in the playoffs.

Skating away from that stick in the face and ignoring the puck tells you all you need to know about his compete level right now.

Panarin likely has that extra gear come playoff time.

And you are right, he's not that big, but he's still is quite a bit bigger than Johnny.

Players Johnny's size can be effective in the playoffs to be sure, but they need to raise their compete level to succeed. I don't think Johnny has figured out how to do that yet. Until he does, most hockey people will be skeptical that he can.

It take some players a number of years to figure that out. Some never do.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Bonded

100% but who trades a Barkov for Gaudreau?

Probably a pipe dream.
But I see Florida as a team that needs to change some pieces.
But it was just a half baked idea.
that's the type of deal I would be looking for though.

[CroFlames]

Jiri mentioned Barkov.

If you had Barkov and Monahan as your 1-2 centres, you’re going places.

Johnny would have to be the centrepiece going back, along with a prospect forward and probably a Dman which is a steep price, but I think it’s worth it.

It might be time to sell high on Gio and gamble on Valimaki and Andersson.

[1_Flames_Fan]

Trade Johnny for Mackinnon

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[oldschoolcalgary]

Monahan has been an issue... i don't know if he's injured, but he's invisible out there...

He's trigger man; he's not a guy that can generate offense.

I don't think Johnny's the issue with the Flames being down 3-1 because he isn't getting a lot of support from Monahan or Lindholm right now... though i don't disagree that he needs to stop complaining to the refs as that has been shown not to do anything... in fact it would not surprise me if its been a negative

surprisingly, what this series has shown to me at least is how slow the flames are, at least compared to the Avs.