What does the NHL have to do to fix officiating?

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

Studies have shown that home teams get more favorable calls. The biased officiating in Game 3 and 4 is largely because of Home Ice Advantage. When home crowds cheer loudly, it motivates refs to be on their side. Refs are human - they subconsciously want to be cheered and make the home fans happy. It's not new, it's not something that can be fixed, it happens in every sport.

Lol, so what the #### happened in game 2?

Gaudreau draws a holding penalty but gets thrown in the box anyways. Just bush league


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[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by stazzy33

AC do you have the play where Johnny got a stick or glove in the face just before Lindholm took a penalty for "interference"? I think this is a perfect example of why Johnny doesn't get any calls, it makes him look like a soccer player. He stands there with his glove on his face for a good five seconds before slowly starting to skate back out to the blue line, then the puck gets turned over and all of a sudden he is back to 100%. I ref minor hockey and if I see #### like that, the player loses all credibility with me. However I may be a terrible ref, so what do I know.

Well does the player get hit in the face with a stick? If so, it's your job as a referee to call that penalty. Because it's a violation of the rules.

I'm not sure what you mean by "back to 100%" either, it's still a penalty.

Terrible refs are within every rank of hockey. Even beer league ones are brutal.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Weitz

People always say they love playoff hockey.. I was never really one of them, its a different game than the regular season. Thats why you see the upsets in the playoffs. The league loves it probably but I don't.

I always say the NHL is the only league in the world that changes the rules in the playoffs. And while officiating is poor in pretty much all sports only in the NHL would I say it actively changes in the playoffs.

Exactly, basketball is one sport that comes to mind. The intensity is without a doubt higher in the playoffs and the refs allow for a little more physicality but they still follow the rule book. There’s no rule book for playoff hockey, it’s whatever the refs feel like on that given day.


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[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by stazzy33

AC do you have the play where Johnny got a stick or glove in the face just before Lindholm took a penalty for "interference"? I think this is a perfect example of why Johnny doesn't get any calls, it makes him look like a soccer player. He stands there with his glove on his face for a good five seconds before slowly starting to skate back out to the blue line, then the puck gets turned over and all of a sudden he is back to 100%. I ref minor hockey and if I see #### like that, the player loses all credibility with me. However I may be a terrible ref, so what do I know.

I'm not trying to take a shot at you.


But the bottom line to me is a penalty is a penalty, if the Refs go in with a strategy of putting their whistles away then it has to be the same for both sides, I'm really not seeing that.


I've coached at multiple levels of football and talked to Refs a lot and I'll say this. If a ref isn't making a call because a player is whining or so called showing them up, then he is a bad ref, and its especially bad at a pro level where these guys should have a thinker skin and act professionally.


I get it at an amateur level where a ref is paid gas money to show up, and is still in "training" but the refs are well paid for their job which is making sure that they don't unbalance the scales based on a BS emotional response.


I remember talking to one ref who really doesn't like me anymore after a game. And he basically said "I don't like you're head coach because he yells at us so I kind of put my whistle away and roll my eyes" I told him that he shouldn't ref anymore because he's really making it all about him.

[Classic_Sniper]

Absolutely hated the officiating last night and pretty much all series long. The refs have basically influenced the decisions on virtually all of the games in this series.

But the team structure is what's costing the Flames right now. How in the world does the 16th best team this year out play the 2nd best team in the league 4 straight games? How do the Avs have 2 consecutive 50 shot games? I don't understand what the coaching staff is doing right now. It's the playoffs, why is there so much room out there?

The Avalanche have been soundly out shot and out played in a lot of games this season. Even when their season was on the line down the stretch against teams that were trying to land that final playoff spot, these guys were getting out shot badly. I'm talking like 42 shots for the Hawks and 20 for the Avs or 44 for the Coyotes and 27 for the Avs.

I just don't understand how the best team in the West can make an average middling team look like an unstoppable juggernaut right now. The coaching staff are so overwhelmed at the moment, it's like a deer in the headlights. I don't think they have a clue here. Treliving needs to step in the steer the ship here because honestly, his job could be on the line with this disaster of a playoff series. It actually looks worse than 2015 and 2017 somehow.

[AC]

Originally Posted by stazzy33

AC do you have the play where Johnny got a stick or glove in the face just before Lindholm took a penalty for "interference"? I think this is a perfect example of why Johnny doesn't get any calls, it makes him look like a soccer player. He stands there with his glove on his face for a good five seconds before slowly starting to skate back out to the blue line, then the puck gets turned over and all of a sudden he is back to 100%. I ref minor hockey and if I see #### like that, the player loses all credibility with me. However I may be a terrible ref, so what do I know.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I’m actually glad we’ve been awful and don’t deserve to win this series.

If the Flames played well and the calls in this thread that AC has posted were the difference I think I’d be in a murderous rage.

As it stands though, they’re largely irrelevant. We aren’t winning this series, bad calls or no.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by stazzy33

AC do you have the play where Johnny got a stick or glove in the face just before Lindholm took a penalty for "interference"? I think this is a perfect example of why Johnny doesn't get any calls, it makes him look like a soccer player. He stands there with his glove on his face for a good five seconds before slowly starting to skate back out to the blue line, then the puck gets turned over and all of a sudden he is back to 100%. I ref minor hockey and if I see #### like that, the player loses all credibility with me. However I may be a terrible ref, so what do I know.

No that was embarrassing. Looked like Kovalev in the playoffs.

And yeah, the magic healing power of puck possession. Made him look like a fool, I thought the same thing when it happened “well this is why he doesn’t get calls”.

And he could have got the puck right back in the offensive zone if he stuck with it. But he had to do some theatrics first. Tired of it.

[sa226]

Gah. Those clips are infuriating.

Does anybody know if, league wide the penalties have been relatively even? We all know there is game management, maybe the refs don't want to influence the game by calling lopsided penalties.

You can't argue that the Flames haven't had opportunities. A PP in overtime, you need to score on.

Its the non-calls. The illegal plays that are negating scoring opportunities. That hook on Gaudreau, with the ref looking right at it, is so asinine. Maybe Johnny would have just shot it right into the crest, or maybe it was labelled top corner, but an illegal stick to the hands with a player in a scoring position which causes the player to flub the puck is a goddamn penalty. I suppose they thought he embellished that too.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by sa226

Gah. Those clips are infuriating.

Does anybody know if, league wide the penalties have been relatively even? We all know there is game management, maybe the refs don't want to influence the game by calling lopsided penalties.

You can't argue that the Flames haven't had opportunities. A PP in overtime, you need to score on.

Its the non-calls. The illegal plays that are negating scoring opportunities. That hook on Gaudreau, with the ref looking right at it, is so asinine. Maybe Johnny would have just shot it right into the crest, or maybe it was labelled top corner, but an illegal stick to the hands with a player in a scoring position which causes the player to flub the puck is a goddamn penalty. I suppose they thought he embellished that too.

Then don't call the incidental trip by Backlund if you don't want to influence the game.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

No that was embarrassing. Looked like Kovalev in the playoffs.

And yeah, the magic healing power of puck possession. Made him look like a fool, I thought the same thing when it happened “well this is why he doesn’t get calls”.

And he could have got the puck right back in the offensive zone if he stuck with it. But he had to do some theatrics first. Tired of it.

Generally getting a wooden stick to the mouth forces a reaction from a human with nerves in their face


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[afc wimbledon]

Couple of points, the league clearly wants the refs to call the playoffs differently than the regular season, if they didn't it wouldn't happen.
Knowing that it's on the teams to build a playoff team not a regular season team or suffer the fate of the Canucks with the Sedins, great regular season team, god awful playoff team.
Second, again clearly the league wants the refs to even up the calls and to some degree effect the game, don't like it myself but its the NHL, its always been that way since I've been here.

[sa226]

Every team whines. Some more than others. Gaudreau is probably near the top of whiners. But if that biases a ref against a player, they need to grow some thicker skin and do their job. They need to call the game as is. If you don't like whining players, start giving them penalties. But to let their whining influence the calls they get to me undermines the game.

Embellishing is different. I get why refs hate it. Refs don't like to be made to look like fools. Perhaps that is the biggest issue with Johnny. Not the whining, the embellishing. The shaking of the hands, hand to the face etc. Perhaps, that is what he needs to stop. but then again, when you get slashed as much as he does, I'd probably shake my hands too. That #### hurts.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Generally getting a wooden stick to the mouth forces a reaction from a human with nerves in their face


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Yup. But after that initial reaction, bear down. Don’t skate away holding your face (when there is clearly no injury). You’re an NHL player in the playoffs, every shift should hurt.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

The Reffing has been suspect in almost every series, with cross checking not being called one game, to now a shove being called. That being said Colorado is playing a heavy, heavy game that the Flames haven't matched. I don't like the calls but that is not why the series is at 3-1.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by sa226

Gah. Those clips are infuriating.

Does anybody know if, league wide the penalties have been relatively even? We all know there is game management, maybe the refs don't want to influence the game by calling lopsided penalties.

You can't argue that the Flames haven't had opportunities. A PP in overtime, you need to score on.

Its the non-calls. The illegal plays that are negating scoring opportunities. That hook on Gaudreau, with the ref looking right at it, is so asinine. Maybe Johnny would have just shot it right into the crest, or maybe it was labelled top corner, but an illegal stick to the hands with a player in a scoring position which causes the player to flub the puck is a goddamn penalty. I suppose they thought he embellished that too.

I am not picking on you specifically, but if they do not call the penalties, the refs are specifically and definitely influencing the game.

We are being outplayed, generally, but are also not getting the benefit of consistent officiating, which makes it doubly frustrating.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Weitz

People always say they love playoff hockey.. I was never really one of them, its a different game than the regular season. Thats why you see the upsets in the playoffs. The league loves it probably but I don't.

I always say the NHL is the only league in the world that changes the rules in the playoffs. And while officiating is poor in pretty much all sports only in the NHL would I say it actively changes in the playoffs.

Totally agree.

I didn't like it when Ferland was charging/interfering players with late hits in 2015, and I don't like it now. The standard changes too drastically.

HOWEVER, it's a completely and utterly predictable change as it happens every single year. Gaudreau should know this by now this isn't his first rodeo. It seemed like he tried to engage physically in game 1, got pushed around a bit, and then now he just won't do anything. My opinion is that not preparing for this completely predictable shift is the main issue.

The main way to win in the playoffs is to commit so many penalties that the refs cannot possibly call them all on you in the name of game management. Any time you have a chance to impede that isn't related to a scoring chance, you do it.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Weitz

People always say they love playoff hockey.. I was never really one of them, its a different game than the regular season. Thats why you see the upsets in the playoffs. The league loves it probably but I don't.

I always say the NHL is the only league in the world that changes the rules in the playoffs. And while officiating is poor in pretty much all sports only in the NHL would I say it actively changes in the playoffs.

This. Thank you.

Its back to the clutch and grab era out there. They let absolutely everything go but call one on Backlund late in the 3rd "just because". Very frustrating to watch as a fan.

[sa226]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

I am not picking on you specifically, but if they do not call the penalties, the refs are specifically and definitely influencing the game.

We are being outplayed, generally, but are also not getting the benefit of consistent officiating, which makes it doubly frustrating.

I agree, and thats my point. With so many infractions that occur in a playoff game, maybe the refs would rather just work towards an even penalty split. Unless something truly egregious occurs. Over the years, we've heard coaches complain and wonder aloud how the opposing team could take 0 penalties and their team take 3. Every media pundit says how special teams and goaltending are the difference in the playoffs. The refs probably know this too, so they don't want to call 3 penalties to the Avs in the 3rd period to make the split 7-4. So they try to call it even. Problem is that they are getting in their own way, and letting clear infractions go that affect the outcomes of games.

I think it explains the chincy calls too. How can a professional referee at the highest level of the sport put the whistle away for some of the stuff we've seen and then call some of those weak holds, or love taps with the stick? Because they are trying to manage the game.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I’m actually glad we’ve been awful and don’t deserve to win this series.

If the Flames played well and the calls in this thread that AC has posted were the difference I think I’d be in a murderous rage.

As it stands though, they’re largely irrelevant. We aren’t winning this series, bad calls or no.

In a game that ended in overtime, and given we've scored PPGs in all four games, it very much can be argued that the officials ignoring blatant infractions by the Avs could very well have materially changed the outcome.

Not to mention how often a string of powerplays can change momentum. Just ask the Avs, who have been given such gifts multiple times already, and routinely from soft calls.

If we continued to play this series the way we did in game 1, we'd be far better off regardless of the officiating, but there can be no question the Avs got a ton of help last night.