[PGT] Avs 6 Flames 2

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Yes you're completely right. Loubardias on the Fan right now just mentioned that he was speaking to a couple scouts after the game and they said the Flames are over committing trying to hit the opposition. In other words, the Flames are trying to be physical and it's taking them out of the play while the Avalanche are playing river hockey on the other side.

In my opinion, If the Flames just sit relax on the forecheck, less hitting, then at the very least they'll have all 5 players actually in play instead of skating hard back just to fish the puck out of your own net.

I think this is really important. It will be supremely disappointing if we don't see our team at least try a different game plan in this series. We need to position ourselves better, not go for the rubouts in the corners, and slow down the neutral zone play of the Avs.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I do not disagree.
I'm saying Gaudreau has had no help. Nobody driving to open spots. Nobody using speed to push the D back and create gaps.
Maybe that is the problem, and why the first line fizzled down the stretch, as things start to tighten up.
Also just saying now we find out the answer. Do they or don't they?
I don't know

A start might be to mix up the lines and see if another pair of players can create space for him. I'd try Gaudreau-Ryan-Bennett and then mix with what's left. I'd also get Fantenberg out and Kylington or Valimaki in. I want to throw Brodie under the bus but I'd probably just out him back with Gio and hope for he best. We need speed.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Yes you're completely right. Loubardias on the Fan right now just mentioned that he was speaking to a couple scouts after the game and they said the Flames are over committing trying to hit the opposition. In other words, the Flames are trying to be physical and it's taking them out of the play while the Avalanche are playing river hockey on the other side.



In my opinion, If the Flames just sit relax on the forecheck, less hitting, then at the very least they'll have all 5 players actually in play instead of skating hard back just to fish the puck out of your own net.

It’s funny because Peters made a comment between games 2&3 about finishing checks but not to the point of getting out of position. The other thing I noticed is I was waiting all night for someone to nail McKinnon on the boards but he was never on the boards, always in the middle and/or moving. So if you can’t slow him down by hitting then that’s the wrong game plan - go for congestion instead.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Discipline is what begets effort, and right now the flames are playing undisciplined hockey. Usually you hear that in regards to penalties but it shows up all over the ice it you know where to look.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You've touched on a major systems issue from the flames in this series and that's no back pressure in transition. It's especially noticeable on lines 1 and 3.

One of the reasons the avs always look to have an odd man rush is that whatever number they are attacking with the flames are a man short on the back check.

Conversely one reason the flames top line can't find any space is they can't outskate the back pressure from the avs.

These two things are related.

Flames are not playing disciplined from a structure perspective. Last night it was evident that you had players chasing hits in the offensive zone, and then it led to them being out numbered and unable to shut down the Avs transition.

IMO the team clearly heard all the "not tough enough" comments and went out there trying to prove they could hit and be physical. But that's not this teams DNA, and that's why they are struggling.

They need to stop chasing hits, just finish checks when you have the chance, but no more running around looking for it. (Unless you are a guy like Bennett where you are actually effective doing it).

Get back to dictating the game with your style of play and stop worrying about needing to finish checks or be tough.

[Manhattanboy]

nm: heat of the moment.

[Ducay]

The second and third lines had some great cycles and zone pressure. Why we kept trying the failed first line is beyond me.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

This is very much an Xs and Os issue in my view. Flames are having terrible puck placement, especially in the offensive zone which is allowing the avs (who have come in fully prepared with a heck of a game plan) to transition and come in blazing speed. I think that's likely why the flames d appear to be giving up the line so easy. I don't believe that's their desired way to defend, however, are forced to the avs quick defence to offence transition.

Totally agree, this series has become a case study on hockey tactics. I feel like the Avs have completely overrun the Flames at their own blue line totally nullifying the Flames attacking transition we saw all season. The Flames are backing off way too much.

The interesting thing now is whether Peters has an answer for it. He did mention fixing the transition as his number one priority, so hopefully he's got a way to adjust for game 4.

Outside of that though I do think the overall compete level needs to increase. The playoffs is when we see some of the best players will their team to victory (like Mackinnon has). It remains to be seen whether the Flames have anyone that can do that. I think we saw shades of it from Tkchuck in game 1, but most of the other top players look too passive.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Hey Gaudreauvertime, maybe make your client watch the tape of his lazy ass, not that it will make any difference. And his pal Monahan, injured or not, can sit in favour of someone who actually gives a damn. Enough of these two already.

You want the team to bench their best forward and top center for a critical game four?

[Jore]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

I think this is really important. It will be supremely disappointing if we don't see our team at least try a different game plan in this series. We need to position ourselves better, not go for the rubouts in the corners, and slow down the neutral zone play of the Avs.

Every time the flames had a rush there were at least 2 avs defenders back with plenty of back pressure from their forwards. Every time the avs had a rush it was like the Red Sea parting with defenders giving them way too much of a gap and no forwards (especially from lines 1 and 3) coming back to pick up trailers. That shg where Monahan just coasted back and let his mark score into an empty net off a rebound was just... ugh.

Monahan, neal, jankowski, and fantenberg need greatly diminished roles or to come out altogether.

I hope they can adjust, but being down in the series it will be hard. One mistake could get them frustrated and off their game again. They’re showing nothing of the resilience of their regular season play.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by AT77

You can't do that when you have the speed MacKinnon posses. He'll just fly right by you before you even have a chance to harass/abuse/hit him.

Sure you can. The guy is not constantly playing at top speed. There are times where he is trying to find space in the o zone or trying to play the puck along the boards. That is when the Flames should be making him really sore instead of stargazing.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You want the team to bench their best forward and top center for a critical game four?

What is really worrying long term is that the Avs were supposedly the best match up for our supposedly superior speed and skill.

[Otto-matic]

Flames need another PP entry too. That drop pass is way to dangerous with how much speed Colorado has on the PK. Its already burned us twice.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

What is really worrying long term is that the Avs were supposedly the best match up for our supposedly superior speed and skill.

Every attempt to pass and use any skill is being met by a super aggressive, fast, physical response to interrupt the play by the Avs.

It’s hard to watch but you have to give Colorado credit.

The other thing is that we could be seeing “04 Iginla” in Mackinnon
This is his prime and he’s flexing his muscles.

[Stanley]

Time for some Valimaki and Czarnik. Czar wouldn't be the saviour but he's got speed and Neal, well...he clearly doesn't.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Ducay

The second and third lines had some great cycles and zone pressure. Why we kept trying the failed first line is beyond me.

Ironically the 1st line had the best possession stats for what that’s worth.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

A lot of coaches and managers get trapped by the sunken cost bias. They've spent X amount of money on a guy, and he's disappointing. But instead of writing it off as a sunk cost, they double down and persist in trying to recoup their payment. They let a mistake in the past compound their problems by making bad decisions in the present.

He's not a sunk cost. There are ways out of contracts.

[Patek23]

We basically have two zone entries. Player A skates it up the boards and once entering the blue line tries to dish it to the middle for a streaking player. Or alternatively they dish it back before the blue line for Player B to try and dipsy doodle it in from the middle. They play up high against us all day and as majority of our players rely on having space to finesse the puck the Avs suffocate us and don’t give any room offensively. I can’t even count how many times they forced a turnover within 5 feet of the blue line. We need to get the puck in deep and crash and bang. If they wanna play high in the offensive zone we need to crash past them rather then trying to tic tac toe it through.

[Otto-matic]

Who would have thought we would see the 06/07 series re-created here again.

Detroit/Colorado skating circles around us only to be kept alive with some insane goal tending.

[tvp2003]

Two straight years that the first line has gone ice cold in the second half of the season/playoffs. Last year it was blamed on Monahan's injuries and Ferland's inconsistency. What's the reason this year? Is Monahan injured again? Is Lindholm as inconsistent as Ferland?

Until that gets figured out, everything else is just window dressing. I get that people are questioning the "core" but if the first line is playing the way it should be, this is a different series.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Shazam

He's not a sunk cost. There are ways out of contracts.

The sunk cost is playing the worst 5-5 producer on the team 16 minutes a night after 60+ games of being below replacement level.

This is looking like the third buyiut worthy free agent signing of tre's tenure.

Absolutely sunk cost is a factor.