Alberta Election Thread - Election Day April 16 2019

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Major Major

As in, there are better ways to allocate resources. Don't know what is so galling about that statement.

That's exactly how it came across to me. Within context it's a perfectly acceptable quote.

[PostandIn]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Really?

The person charged with running this province says they have "better things to do" than fight the very groups that have cost this province 10's of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in revenue....isn't a problem for you?


OK then.

I have a very very different perspective on that.

And the right perspective. It’s completely unacceptable for foreign money to pour into the country and be used to manipulate public opinion and interfere in our processes.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Really?

The person charged with running this province says they have "better things to do" than fight the very groups that have cost this province 10's of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in revenue....isn't a problem for you?


OK then.

I have a very very different perspective on that.

Admittedly, I am no expert on the Vivian Krause campaign against the Rockefellers, but in the snippets I've read, there is not a straight line drawn between funding activist groups and costing the province billions of dollars and 10s of thousands of jobs.

Her articles read more like frothing self-important boogeyman-ery to me. I want my GD pipeline too. Just don't see how a lengthy legal battle against the vague claims of fake charities funded by the mega rich is going to accomplish anything.

[RubberDuck]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Admittedly, I am no expert on the Vivian Krause campaign against the Rockefellers, but in the snippets I've read, there is not a straight line drawn between funding activist groups and costing the province billions of dollars and 10s of thousands of jobs.

Her articles read more like frothing self-important boogeyman-ery to me. I want my GD pipeline too. Just don't see how a lengthy legal battle against the vague claims of fake charities funded by the mega rich is going to accomplish anything.

Maybe you should read more than snippets before drawing your conclusions. Her work is anything but vague. It is very clear where the money is coming from and it's very clear that our economy and industry is being targeted by foreign interests. Now they are trying to influence elections and I can't fathom how anyone would think that is not worth fighting.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

This is the weirdest election I can remember. Still don't know who to vote for.

I honestly am pretty empathetic to those who really believe in the UPC economic magic beans, or whole heartedly hold conservative values.

But how are people still supporting these guys? I feel like you would have to actively worked to find a worse slate.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Admittedly, I am no expert on the Vivian Krause campaign against the Rockefellers, but in the snippets I've read, there is not a straight line drawn between funding activist groups and costing the province billions of dollars and 10s of thousands of jobs.

Her articles read more like frothing self-important boogeyman-ery to me. I want my GD pipeline too. Just don't see how a lengthy legal battle against the vague claims of fake charities funded by the mega rich is going to accomplish anything.

Yeah her claims are anything but vague, they are pretty specific especially when it comes to groups like leadnow and progress. Where their funding is coming from and what they're using it for.


She also got a legal opinion from a law firm and submitted it to Notley who's chief of staff basically said that action would be taken, but Notley ignored it.


We know that Lead Now took a lot of foreign money in the last Federal Election and used it to heavily campaign against the Conservatives.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Admittedly, I am no expert on the Vivian Krause campaign against the Rockefellers, but in the snippets I've read, there is not a straight line drawn between funding activist groups and costing the province billions of dollars and 10s of thousands of jobs.

Her articles read more like frothing self-important boogeyman-ery to me. I want my GD pipeline too. Just don't see how a lengthy legal battle against the vague claims of fake charities funded by the mega rich is going to accomplish anything.

Well if you actually take a bit of time (cause there is a lot to read and get through) this is no boogeyman soldiers in the street stuff.

This is well researched, documented and confirmed and it has taken years. Krause wasn't doing this on anyones behalf either, she was investigating a story. She nailed it.

None of this is overly new information but it most certainly has recently gotten attention and rightfully so.

This was written well over a year ago.

It’s impossible in a brief column to capture more than a glimpse into the origins and workings of the green takeover of Canadian politics and their role in subjugating the oilsands and Canada’s energy sector. But here’s a peek at just one element.

In October 2008, American activist Michael J. Marx, representing a U.S. organization called Corporate Ethics International, based in San Francisco, was asked by two major U.S. foundations — Hewlett and Rockefeller Brothers — to recruit, organize and fund a donation “re-granting agency” for a campaign to shut down Canada’s oilsands. Writes Marx: “From the very beginning, the campaign strategy was to land-lock the tar sands so their crude could not reach the international market where it could fetch a high price per barrel. This meant national and grassroots organizing to block all proposed pipelines.”

From Keystone XL to Trans Mountain, Marx today claims success for a plan hatched almost a decade ago via a 2008 briefing document obtained by Krause. Marx says the plan is to stop growth of the oilsands “by increasing the perception of financial risks by potential investors and by choking off the necessary infrastructure (inputs and outputs) of the tar sands. We will accomplish this by raising the visibility of the negatives associated with the tar sands (and) initiating legal challenges in order to force government and corporate decision-makers to take steps that raise the costs of production and block delivery of infrastructure.”

https://business.financialpost.com/o...t-was-the-plan

Again, this is real, its been happening for over a decade and it is ABUNDANTLY clear that they are achieving all their goals.

It is times it stops and its time to fight back.

IMO of course.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Really?

The person charged with running this province says they have "better things to do" than fight the very groups that have cost this province 10's of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in revenue....isn't a problem for you?


OK then.

I have a very very different perspective on that.

Did you watch the video? She says they’ve sought legal consultation multiple times regarding the findings from Vivian. It’s not “eh, not important!” it’s “we’ve consulted independent legal experts and come to this conclusion.”

Context is important. But sure, the outrage machine can chug on if you remove context from an already out of context video.

Partisanship is yuck.

[CaptainCrunch]

People are up in arms about social media account interference in the US election and other election and fake news and misinformation by Russia.


What's happened here and in the last Federal Election and in this one is way way worse.


We have elements in the US that are directly linked to US Oil Strategy and Energy independence sending money to groups to campaign on their behalf and spread as much mis-information as possible.


And they get away with it because they are in line with the current governments in power.


Again I go back to Trudeau's rush to kill Harper's idea to force CRA audits of these groups and remove their tax free status.



They are mercenary groups effecting elections, and attacking a primary economic segment of this country.

[Corral]

Curious to see how the Cons will applaud and support the conspiracy work of an outsider like Vivian Krause, but then tar and paste the work of other 'outsiders' whose work doesn't support their ideology.

[nik-]

Predictable response

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by RubberDuck

Maybe you should read more than snippets before drawing your conclusions. Her work is anything but vague. It is very clear where the money is coming from and it's very clear that our economy and industry is being targeted by foreign interests. Now they are trying to influence elections and I can't fathom how anyone would think that is not worth fighting.

I didn't call her work vague, I called her work frothing self-important boogeyman-ery. I agree that the money should be followed and think she has done a good job of that. I agree that our elections should not be hijacked through misinformation and through otherwise illegal means. But I have 2 lines of questioning:

1. What specifically can you go after the Rockefellers for? In other words, is there a clear legal path that would have any consequence for our bid to get oil to our coast?

My understanding is that they funded the Federal courts appeal through the funneling of money. Is that illegal or just dirty pool? They've also funneled money to fund an elections group that text people. Again, is this illegal? I definitely don't like it, but have they skirted campaign finance law by having it flow through Canadian charities?

2. If this is a legal swamp with more quicksand than vines, must we give way outraged over a politician saying that she would rather not dive into it, but focus her attention on working with the federal and court system that imposed this decision, whatever we may think of them, to get the pipeline done? It seems like it's in line with how she's governed this whole time.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

People are up in arms about social media account interference in the US election and other election and fake news and misinformation by Russia.


What's happened here and in the last Federal Election and in this one is way way worse.


We have elements in the US that are directly linked to US Oil Strategy and Energy independence sending money to groups to campaign on their behalf and spread as much mis-information as possible.


And they get away with it because they are in line with the current governments in power.


Again I go back to Trudeau's rush to kill Harper's idea to force CRA audits of these groups and remove their tax free status.



They are mercenary groups effecting elections, and attacking a primary economic segment of this country.

It seems so ironic that those who champion small government, minimal intervention in the market, lower taxes, and individual rights over collective governance ... would then also direct one of the most intrusive branches of the State into conducting 'force audits'

While we are at it, lets force audit all the major energy companies and CEOs to make sure they are 'clean' as well. Might as well add the UCP party to that list as well.

[nik-]

Imagine being so partisan that your reaction to foreign derailment of billions of dollars in royalty revenue for all Canadians is to desperately grasp at something another political party did.

Imagine being so small minded that you hand wave away an existential economic crisis for a major Canadian industry, employer and tax provider because you'd rather be a party hack than have a prosperous country.

That would be embarrassing.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Corral

It seems so ironic that those who champion small government, minimal intervention in the market, lower taxes, and individual rights over collective governance ... would then also direct one of the most intrusive branches of the State into conducting 'force audits'

While we are at it, lets force audit all the major energy companies and CEOs to make sure they are 'clean' as well. Might as well add the UCP party to that list as well.

The call from Albertans for a Trudeau to get the federal government involved with energy policy in the national interest also has a pretty good dose of irony to it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Corral

It seems so ironic that those who champion small government, minimal intervention in the market, lower taxes, and individual rights over collective governance ... would then also direct one of the most intrusive branches of the State into conducting 'force audits'

While we are at it, lets force audit all the major energy companies and CEOs to make sure they are 'clean' as well. Might as well add the UCP party to that list as well.

Sure but that can happen now, there aren't any protections for the books of major energy companies and CEO's. There are for these "Charitable Groups"


Hey if these Oil companies and CEO's are doing dirty things with their money, or forming and funding political action groups that campaign in elections, fund groups filing nuisance lawsuits, pay people to protest and jam up consultations to actually slow them down, then they should be audited. I also don't recall these CEO's and Energy Companies being tax free and protected either.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

The call from Albertans for a Trudeau to get the federal government involved with energy policy in the national interest also has a pretty good dose of irony to it.

Well considering that the transportation of goods across border for trades under the constitution is a Federal power, I don't see where the Irony is, its their job.

[Ozy_Flame]

Cap, can I just say that although our politics are not always on the same side, I really enjoy your tone and delivery. Very easy to read and with a professionalism anyone can enjoy. I always welcome your posts and enjoy reading your perspective. Your knowledge on military and global security affairs is also noted.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by nik-

Imagine being so partisan that your reaction to foreign derailment of billions of dollars in royalty revenue for all Canadians is to desperately grasp at something another political party did.

Imagine being so small minded that you hand wave away an existential economic crisis for a major Canadian industry, employer and tax provider because you'd rather be a party hack than have a prosperous country.

That would be embarrassing.

Great post!

[Oling_Roachinen]

How different the court’s ruling might have been (indeed, the entire proceeding may have been conducted differently) if only Notley had initiated some form of legal action in July 2018 when she was provided a solid footing on which to begin and urged to do so.

This shows a complete lack of well everything by Krause. Bias, critical thinking, understanding of law. Just how stupid do you have to think this?

The judges wouldn't give two ####s who sent First Nation money. The only thing that mattered was if they were meaningful consulted, and they clearly weren't.