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View Poll Results: What role do humans play in contributing to climate change?
Humans are the primary contributor to climate change 317 63.91%
Humans contribute to climate change, but not the main cause 131 26.41%
Not sure 26 5.24%
Climate change is a hoax 22 4.44%
Voters: 496. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-10-2019, 09:15 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil View Post
What will Alberta use to heat ourselves in -40? Serious question.
Natural gas of course.

But that is not the problem.

See, I don't think Canadians understand just how many coal plants there are in the world. Like, there's thousands. Look at a USA coal plant map. It's farking nuts. They're converting as fast as they can to NG. That in itself will drastically reduce CO2 emissions. Like, there's 200 year old coal plants finally being replaced. Yippee.

Germany opened up a new coal plant, because their emissions are so low. Think about that.

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How will we manufacture anything without combustion? Another serious question.
Can't. Metallurgical coal will be used until civilization falls. There is no other way to have a blast furnace.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:18 AM   #42
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An honest question I've had for a while is how do you respond to someone who thinks it's a hoax, or thinks the stuff like, it's all volcanoes or it's all the sun activity or co2 is plant food is valid? Or is it all valid in some way?
That's why the answer is "humans are mostly responsible but natural variation plays a role too." By discounting natural variation, your position is basically "the climate has never changed" which is demonstrably false. But if you allow that yes, natural forces also have an impact on our climate, your explanation to them becomes that our current rate of change is beyond the scope of natural variation, particularly the rate of CO2 accumulation which is easily demonstrable. And yes, CO2 is plant food, but it is also a greenhouse gas. It can be both.


As for the hoax part, I don't even know how you get there. Is the CIA running up to glaciers at night running hair dryers to melt them?
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:36 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
As for the hoax part, I don't even know how you get there. Is the CIA running up to glaciers at night running hair dryers to melt them?

No but occasionally you see some "peer reviewed" data that shows some glaciers getting bigger and water in some oceans is getting colder. It just seems like it takes one scrap of info to negate the whole other side of things.



Danielle Smith has had Timothy Ball on her show several times which surprises me because I think she's pretty smart. And if you just listen to the radio segment you'd be scratching your head going what the hell is the climate change garbage about anyway. Then you read up on what a goof Timothy Ball is and you feel as though you've been had again.



So I don't get it. I think our solutions to climate change are idiotic but I do not disagree with most of the science until you get science that obviously has an agenda...like the Canada is cooling twice as fast as the rest of the world stories that allow the government to say look at us doing this important science and policy work.
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:04 AM   #44
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The correct answer is number one...and the only thing that can help mediate it is technology...just like it has for every other issue that most of us don't even know exists anymore.
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:05 AM   #45
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The only way that change is ever going to happen is if the US and China are forced to change what they're doing.
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:06 AM   #46
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I believe many people instinctively struggle with the idea that mere humans and tiny particles can upset the natural balance.

I think it has been explained that in relative terms, our atmosphere is thinner than the skin on an apple.

The NASA website on Climate Change is an excellent resource:
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

This site debunks Climate Change Myths:
https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

And while the future looks grim, there are reasons for hope:

Six Canadian companies chasing the carbon capture market

https://www.jwnenergy.com/article/20...apture-market/

I believe Calgary is well-positioned and should be aiming to become a global energy capital - cleaner fossil fuel and green technology.
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:08 AM   #47
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Shell's Quest project has been quietly capturing carbon for years now. And no seems to have noticed.

It's not just about climate change. It's about Big Oil. Naive people think that getting rid of Big Oil will mean cheaper energy for them. But it's only going to be replaced by Big Solar. Or Big Hydro. Or whatever.
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:09 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
The only way that change is ever going to happen is if the US and China are forced to change what they're doing.
China has the greater potential to make the changes necessary, being a centralized autocratic government? The US must answer to powerful fossil fuel lobby groups.
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:11 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMG!WTF! View Post
An honest question I've had for a while is how do you respond to someone who thinks it's a hoax, or thinks the stuff like, it's all volcanoes or it's all the sun activity or co2 is plant food is valid? Or is it all valid in some way?
https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:17 AM   #50
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I also concur that overpopulation is a major problem. There seems to be a trajectory of too many humans for this planet to sustain, unless we dramatically change the way we consume our own resources.

I'm going to get slammed for this, but I hope in the future governments apply some form of a consumption tax to families that are greater than their own replacement value. Also, education all day long about the risks of large families, and making sure people have easy and affordable access to birth control methods.

I would also be in favor of legalized euthanasia with more liberal thresholds, and with a proper process structure in place to ensure all corners are covered with finances, family, work, etc. Individuals should be able to more freely allow themselves to perish. I am ready for the onslaught of critique
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:20 AM   #51
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A proven way to drastically lower human reproductive rates to even below replacement levels is to install welfare programs like EI and CPP. It's worked everywhere it's been done.
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:27 AM   #52
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Well we haven't had a good city busting World War in a while. . .
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:41 AM   #53
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Suppose 100% of people believe climate change is caused by human activity, so what? What good does that do? We need solutions not more studies on how we are killing the planet.
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:54 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
The only way that change is ever going to happen is if the US and China are forced to change what they're doing.
Please forgive my ignorance, but I thought that the US led all countries in reducing carbon emissions?
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:21 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
Ya, to many people is definitely a problem. To much other pollution is also a big issue. I sometimes wonder if all the death at places like the Great Barrier Reef is due more to fertilizer runoff and water pollution than warming waters. .
Oceanic ‘dead zones’. Indeed related to a combination of warmer water and run off. Essentially a lack of oxygen in the water, to the point where marine life suffocates. It’s an incredibly sad thing to learn about.
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:26 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Samonadreau View Post
We definitely contribute, problem is countries Such as US, China and Russia don't give a dang so the small adjustments we make don't mean squat.
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
The only way that change is ever going to happen is if the US and China are forced to change what they're doing.
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Please forgive my ignorance, but I thought that the US led all countries in reducing carbon emissions?
This is a very outdated view. China has been going balls to the wall creating a huge shift in their pollution and carbon output. They are one of the few countries that are meeting their carbon output obligations in 2020 and they did it three years ahead of schedule.

They've built more high speed rail, solar, and public electric transportation capacity than the ENTIRE rest of the western world combined and they can do this because the leadership there has decided it needs to happen and silenced dissent to the contrary. They do not need to be forced to do it, their country was already too polluted and their leadership projected there will be civil unrest if they did not and have acted to counter that.

They are also now the worlds largest producer and consumer of solar panels and high speed rail and among the largest for electric buses. Here in the Western world we are plagued with political in-fighting and inaction over this very issue.

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China met its 2020 carbon intensity target three years ahead of schedule last year, the official Xinhua news agency reported on Tuesday, citing the country’s top climate official Xie Zhenhua.

China, the world’s biggest energy consumer, cut its 2005 carbon intensity level, or the amount of climate-warming carbon dioxide it produces per unit of economic growth, by 46 percent in 2017, Xie told a forum in Shanghai on Tuesday.

Carbon intensity fell 5.1 percent in 2017 compared to the previous year, Xinhua said, suggesting that China’s war on pollution also helped reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

China originally promised to cut its 2005 carbon intensity by 40 percent to 45 percent. The pledge, first made in 2009, was included in the country’s commitments to the international community ahead of negotiations for a new global climate pact in Paris in 2015.

However, China struggled to honor another promise to establish a nationwide emissions cap and trade system by 2017, with the scheme delayed by technical problems, including the reliability of emissions data. The country eventually settled for a scaled-back scheme involving only the power sector, which was launched in December last year.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN1H312U



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You have to keep your eyes peeled for the bus at the station in Shenzhen’s Futian central business district these days. The diesel behemoths that once signalled their arrival with a piercing hiss, a rattle of engine and a plume of fumes are no more, replaced with the world’s first and largest 100% electric bus fleet.

Shenzhen now has 16,000 electric buses in total and is noticeably quieter for it. “We find that the buses are so quiet that people might not hear them coming,” says Joseph Ma, deputy general manager at Shenzhen Bus Group, the largest of the three main bus companies in the city. “In fact, we’ve received requests to add some artificial noise to the buses so that people can hear them. We’re considering it.”

We’ve received requests to add artificial noise to the buses so people can hear them

The benefits from the switch from diesel buses to electric are not confined to less noise pollution: this fast-growing megacity of 12 million – which was a fishing village until designated China’s first “special economic zone” in the 1980s – is also expected to achieve an estimated reduction in CO2 emissions of 48% and cuts in pollutants such as nitrogen oxides, non-methane hydrocarbons and particulate matter. Shenzhen Bus Group estimates it has been able to conserve 160,000 tonnes of coal per year and reduce annual CO2 emissions by 440,000 tonnes. Its fuel bill has halved.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...tric-bus-fleet

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China is the world’s largest manufacturer of solar panel technology, points out Yvonne Liu at Bloomberg New Energy Finance, a market research firm. “The market is really big,” she says. “It is like industrial policy for the government.” According to the International Energy Agency (IEA) more than 60% of the world’s solar panels are made in China. The government has a clear economic interest, then, in ensuring that there is high demand for solar panels.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2018...s-solar-energy

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Old 04-10-2019, 11:41 AM   #57
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You forgot India. That contributes to almost 40% of the worlds emissions. Should we do more? Yes. Should we bankrupt our country to do so? No
Have a source for that India statistic? Because the sources I have seen suggest ~6%, not 40%. 6% is a per capita emissions rate approximately 1/10th of Canada's per capita rate. So Canadians picking on India is not a great look.
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:42 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by FlameOn View Post
This is a very outdated view. China has been going balls to the wall creating a huge shift in their pollution and carbon output. They are one of the few countries that are meeting their carbon output obligations in 2020 and they did it three years ahead of schedule.

They've built more high speed rail, solar, and public electric transportation capacity than the ENTIRE rest of the western world combined and they can do this because the leadership there has decided it needs to happen and silenced dissent to the contrary. They do not need to be forced to do it, their country was already too polluted and their leadership projected there will be civil unrest if they did not and have acted to counter that.

They are also now the worlds largest producer and consumer of solar panels and high speed rail and among the largest for electric buses.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN1H312U





https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...tric-bus-fleet



http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2018...s-solar-energy
Well, yeah. They have a billion people. Everything they do is the largest. They also make most of the world's shoes. So what?
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Old 04-10-2019, 12:01 PM   #59
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Humans are changing the climate at a faster rate than natural (non-human) processes.

Human energy consumption will increase in perpetuity as we have a continuously growing population and we are continuously trying to do more and more.

Assuming the two points above that makes this a complex technological problem. Complex problems are best solved by free markets. There has never been more demand for non-carbon based energy, and its only increasing.

Taxation inhibits innovation. While in theory tax revenue directed towards projects could lead innovation however that is based on the assumption that the politicians deciding what projects are and what are not worthy of redirected tax revenue are competent in the field of which they are directing tax revenue and are not privy to political pressure, this is extremely rare. Unfortunately a politician deciding on how to spend OTHER peoples money does not have the same risk associated with individuals risking their own capital, this causes money to be allocated improperly risk adjusted to project results.

I'm all for transitioning to a non-carbon based energy system, but any government solution is the wrong approach.

Capitalism will solve this. Book it.
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Old 04-10-2019, 12:12 PM   #60
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I think we're well past the point of no return, and suspect that the "outlandish" cascade scenarios (permafrost methane, ocean CO2, etc) are likely. Human psychology is just not built for longterm, global thinking; we'll try to take care of our "own", but climate change is just too remote (as is overpopulation).

I think a lot about Canada and what a small country with abundant water and resources, plentiful food, and a lot of space will look like in the coming century. If millions and millions begin to die, and many millions of others become refugees, it's fascinating/scary to think about what will happen here: Wars? Taken over by the US? Harsh patrolling of our borders?

We'll probably be fantastically rich, and very envied, but we will also be dealing with many millions of desperate people elsewhere: there are places in China, India, Africa, and South America containing billions of people that will largely become uninhabitable because of heat, humidity, and lack of water.

I also think that climate change is going to lead to millions - maybe billions - of deaths. People in rich, colder countries will develop tech to save themselves, but saving everyone isn't going to happen in my view. We've never been great at "sharing" as a species, and for the majority of the world (i.e. the "Third World"), things have always been basically this way. Middle class is both average in the West and yet beyond the aspirations of a majority of the rest of the world; climate change will make that a permanent state of affairs. Inequality will be entrenched.

But yeah, from a Canadian perspective - rich, cold, sparsely-populated, and abundant with water - we're going to have much of the world looking in our direction.
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