Alberta Election Thread - Election Day April 16 2019

[Ped]

To be honest, most forums and debates are a waste of time and money.


MPs or MPPs vote along party lines. It does not matter what they say when asked a question by a voter unless they specifically answer with their party's platform, and all you really need for that is the internet.


I wish their opinions actually meant something but they don;t. And these days party politics are even more entrenched than ever.

[pgsieve]

I just wish they would leave me alone! I’ve had 9 calls in 2 days from four different parties

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

"Smear" has a connotation of being false. If a candidate goes and calls transexual people "perversions" it's not smearing them to call them bigots, it's a fact.

The assumption by the NDP is people can't change and the past will certainly prove to be true. Zero room that they could be wrong. Or all apologies should be ignored. Imagine if we were all judged on stuff we did years ago? Would you be upset that people ignored any changes you may have made just to make you look bad? All in an effort to score political points.

Then there's the hypocrisy in the NDP govt where they are protecting 2 MLA's guilty of sexual misconduct. If it happened in the UCP, Notley would be telling the press they should be removed from the party. She clearly has double standards.

I would also say that "fear" in this context is usually based on something that very likely would not happen, but when the UCP is campaigning on removing Bill 24, that's again just stating facts.

Notley telling people they will need their credit cards when using the new Cancer centre is fear. Or the fact we are going to end up with USA style health care should Kenney win.

I get it that you don't think these issues should matter in comparison to the other "more important" aspects, fair enough, but it's not smear and fear

This is not a case of what I think but more about what voters are indicating. If it was important I would think Notley would have the lead in all the polls and in the end win this election. In past elections it would have killed the UCP but it doesn't appear it's going to happen in this election.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Wait, what happened to that picture of Notley looking like Palpatine, Dion?

That's gonna haunt my sleep.

It was a mistake on my part and was never meant to be posted. I quickly changed it to the tweet I was intending to post.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by pgsieve

I just wish they would leave me alone! I’ve had 9 calls in 2 days from four different parties

I just look at the number on my call display and if it's a number I don't know I answer by saying: "Joe's pool hall and no your husband isn't here!"

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

It's incredibly insulting to the hundred's of people who marched in support of GSA the other week in Calgary, Edmonton and Lethbridge to call them "a distraction" — and if you can't see that... well, it's already clear who you're voting for.

(Not to mention the fact that Kenney brought this issue up all on his own, so who's distracted??)

What I said was: "Notley is wrong in this case. The economy, jobs, pipelines and the carbon tax is what people are most concerned about." Nowhere in that statement did I say it was my view.

I was correctly stating that voters have a different view of what is important and so far the polls are showing that.

Btw I voted for the AB party this afternoon.

[dre]

Originally Posted by Dion

Notley telling people they will need their credit cards when using the new Cancer centre is fear. Or the fact we are going to end up with USA style health care should Kenney win.

"Excuse me sir but you will need to pay for your treatment."

"You mean the treatment that probably won't cure my cancer?"

"Yes"

"Do you take Visa?"

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by pgsieve

I just wish they would leave me alone! I’ve had 9 calls in 2 days from four different parties

Yeah ive had a few calls and texts as well...not that big a deal though. Delete the texts and hang up on the calls.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Dion

The assumption by the NDP is people can't change and the past will certainly prove to be true. Zero room that they could be wrong. Or all apologies should be ignored.

Can't change? There have been posts from a year ago, and when given the chance to apologies where are they? Kiryakos stepped down because she was a "distraction" and being bullied and was commended by Kenney. She could have taken the opportunity to apologize instead she talked about free speech.

Originally Posted by Dion

Imagine if we were all judged on stuff we did years ago? Would you be upset that people ignored any changes you may have made just to make you look bad? All in an effort to score political points.

The guys who said bigoted stuff about homosexuals are campaigning on homophobic law changes that they made sure to bring up. But we can't judge them on their pasts. Okay.

Originally Posted by Dion

Then there's the hypocrisy in the NDP govt where they are protecting 2 MLA's guilty of sexual misconduct. If it happened in the UCP, Notley would be telling the press they should be removed from the party. She clearly has double standards.

Agreed, they handled that poorly. At least it should have been more transparent. Hypocrisy, sure. But again, that's not fear and smear.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Dion

Notley telling people they will need their credit cards when using the new Cancer centre is fear. Or the fact we are going to end up with USA style health care should Kenney win.

Kenney calling Notley Justin Trudeau's "ally" (which is also flat out wrong) is fear mongering too. Both parties are doing it.

Kenney needs to read up on what "smear" means. Repeating things that were said by him and his candidates - verbatim - is not a smear. It's a dirty campaign tactic, but it's not a smear if it's the truth.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Can't change? There have been posts from a year ago, and when given the chance to apologies where are they? stepped down because she was a "distraction" and being bullied and was commended by Kenney. She could have taken the opportunity to apologize instead she talked about free speech.

She was right and that she would have become a distraction. It's clear she has views and values that she feels would cause problems in the election. While she didn't apologise I thought she explained well why she believes in what she posted.

"We all retweet and share articles," she said in her Facebook video. "I admit the image on the article wasn't positive. But the article was on women getting raped and the crisis there."

Kiryakos also included a tweet she posted during what she says was a discussion over the Alberta Teachers' Association direction that students be allowed to use a washroom of their choosing — now government policy.

Kiryakos said her children "had a right to not be brainwashed into accepting perversions as alternative lifestyles."

"I was concerned about safety in the washrooms and schools for my daughter and other people's daughters," she says in her Facebook video announcing her resignation as a candidate.

"The possibility of a grown man sharing a washroom with a little girl, to me, is a perversion," she said.

"I used the words 'alternative lifestyle' because the people I was engaged with on Twitter were using those words."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...osts-1.5069953

The guys who said bigoted stuff about homosexuals are campaigning on homophobic law changes that they made sure to bring up. But we can't judge them on their pasts. Okay.

Judge them sure, no problem. I made a general sweeping statement that clearly ignored some candidates that deserved judgement. My apologies for that

The fear out there is if he was given the post as Education Minister he would use his religious values when making any changes. He should have been removed

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...xual-1.5081799

[Izzle]

https://pressprogress.ca/the-rcmp-is...adership-vote/

If I were Brian Jean, I'd be livid. It will be interesting to know by how much Kenney won the UCP leadership and if the total number of suspicious emails exceeded that amount.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Kenney calling Notley Justin Trudeau's "ally" (which is also flat out wrong) is fear mongering too. Both parties are doing it.

Of course you're right. They all do it to some degree with some doing it more than others. They all look like hypocrites when they call out the other party for doing it.

Kenney needs to read up on what "smear" means. Repeating things that were said by him and his candidates - verbatim - is not a smear

A smear campaign is an intentional, premeditated effort to undermine an individual's or group's reputation, credibility, and character. Like negative campaigning, most often smear campaigns target government officials, politicians, political candidates, and other public figures. However, private persons or groups may also become targets of smear campaigns perpetrated in companies, institutions, the legal system, and other formal groups.

Smear tactics differ from normal discourse or debate in that they do not bear upon the issues or arguments in question. A smear is a simple attempt to malign a group or an individual with the aim of undermining their credibility.

Smears often consist of ad hominem attacks in the form of unverifiable rumors and distortions, half-truths, or even outright lies; smear campaigns are often propagated by gossip magazines. Even when the facts behind a smear campaign are demonstrated to lack proper foundation, the tactic is often effective because the target's reputation is tarnished before the truth is known.

Smears are also effective in diverting attention away from the matter in question and onto a specific individual or group. The target of the smear typically must focus on correcting the false information rather than on the original issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smear_campaign

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Izzle

https://pressprogress.ca/the-rcmp-is...adership-vote/

If I were Brian Jean, I'd be livid. It will be interesting to know by how much Kenney won the UCP leadership and if the total number of suspicious emails exceeded that amount.

That website is a rag. All i would take from this is the RCMP received a complaint and are investigating it.

[dre]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Uhhhhh . . . . not really. If anything I'm saying the current taxation form is not fair and we need to have a fair consumption tax put in.

Fair = the same rate applies to everyone, regardless of income level.

Sorry for the late response, but I meant to ask you this the other day.

It sounds like paying a PST is fair because everyone pays it.
What is it about not paying PST that is not fair when everyone is not paying it?

Maybe I am overlooking this and should let it go, but I seriously want to know your position on what if any a PST would benefit the people of Alberta? An amicable discussion.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Dion

She was right and that she would have become a distraction. It's clear she has views and values that she feels would cause problems in the election. While she didn't apologise I thought she explained well why she believes in what she posted.

"We all retweet and share articles," she said in her Facebook video. "I admit the image on the article wasn't positive. But the article was on women getting raped and the crisis there."

Kiryakos also included a tweet she posted during what she says was a discussion over the Alberta Teachers' Association direction that students be allowed to use a washroom of their choosing — now government policy.

Kiryakos said her children "had a right to not be brainwashed into accepting perversions as alternative lifestyles."

"I was concerned about safety in the washrooms and schools for my daughter and other people's daughters," she says in her Facebook video announcing her resignation as a candidate.

"The possibility of a grown man sharing a washroom with a little girl, to me, is a perversion," she said.

"I used the words 'alternative lifestyle' because the people I was engaged with on Twitter were using those words."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...osts-1.5069953

Notice how she called transsexual individuals "perversions"? Notice how she didn't take the opportunity to apologize for that? Isn't she brought up the whole having a man in a girl's lockerroom - which remind me again how that isn't the definition of fear mongering?

Imagine being called a pervert because of your sexual orientation and then have the party leader commend the person who called you a pervert. But we can't call them out for that, because that's a smear campaign:r olleyes:.

Originally Posted by Dion

Smears often consist of ad hominem attacks in the form of unverifiable rumors and distortions, half-truths, or even outright lies; smear campaigns are often propagated by gossip magazines.

And that's the issue. Where are the half-truths? Unverifiable rumours? The "smearing" has been done by the candidates and ex-candidates own words and actions. That's not smearing, not in my book.

[bomber317]

Not sure if it was posted yet - here are some of the candidate forums with video


https://www.sprawlcalgary.com/watch-...election-forum


I missed mine, so I was glad to find it to watch. Hopefully this helps for others.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Notice how she called transsexual individuals "perversions"? Notice how she didn't take the opportunity to apologize for that? Isn't she brought up the whole having a man in a girl's lockerroom - which remind me again how that isn't the definition of fear mongering?

Imagine being called a pervert because of your sexual orientation and then have the party leader commend the person who called you a pervert. But we can't call them out for that, because that's a smear campaign:r olleyes:.

Do we seriously need the 6 rolling eyes to make a point? Your point was clear enough without them.

I would call it fear mongering if she decided to stay with the party and continue with her views vying for the seat in her area. Agree or not she felt her views would be a distraction and they would have been, so she stepped down. I'm glad she did.

Her views are not hurting anyone but herself, and since she is longer a UCP she can't have any of her views looked at by the party.

And that's the issue. Where are the half-truths? Unverifiable rumours? The "smearing" has been done by the candidates and ex-candidates own words and actions. That's not smearing, not in my book.

How can it be an issue if she's no longer running for the UCP?

[djsFlames]

Notleys foot soldiers are texting and calling every day now.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Dion

Do we seriously need the 6 rolling eyes to make a point? Your point was clear enough without them.

I intended to have 7. Which probably wasn't enough.

Originally Posted by Dion

How can it be an issue if she's no longer running for the UCP?

The real issue is Kenney commending her. He called her selfless for stepping down.

He could have condemned her hateful language. He could have apologized for not vetting her probably. He could have made it clear in no uncertain terms that the UCP is against bigotry like her words. He didn't. Instead he commended this individual for fighting for her right to call transsexual individuals "perverts."

But also you're making a Catch 22. If there's no focus on candidates hateful rhetoric then people like her will remain, but if there is, then they are "smear and fear" campaigning. Even though in this instance no one really knows who was going to release her hateful posts.