Alberta Election Thread - Election Day April 16 2019

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Think about what you're saying here

They don't get your support because they care more about policies than they do about winning.

The ucp care so little about policies they are willing to scrap them if it means attaining power. Whatever it takes to attain power, for powers sake.

To cowboys point above that the liberals and Alberta party should've merged, why? To compromise their political beliefs to Garner more power? Are we better off with fewer political parties who are willing to do whatever it takes to seize the reigns, or are we better off with diverse political parties and views that give citizens options that reflect their own desires?

The ucp is a naked admission that while there were substantial differences between PC and wildrose, the most important thing was attaining power. Differences can be put aside in the pursuit of power.

Rather than change policy platform to appeal to more voters, just combine entities to pool votes, political integrity be damned. Give voters less choice so you can scoop up a larger share. That's anti-democratic.

We are all worse off with less representation.

No, the most important thing was to stop slitting one anothers throats at the voting booth.

I was part of that thing from early on and it was individual party members that OVERWHELMINGLY voted to merge because there was just not enough difference for the two parties to continue on as separate entities. WR was 95% in favor and PC was 85% IIRC...could be wrong on numbers but it wasn't even close.

So to claim there was "substantial" differences between the two is patently false. The membership would never have agreed to the merge otherwise. There were small factions in both parties that wanted nothing to do with one another, no question, but average jane certainly was not part of that.

The majority of the Liberal part of the PC party departed and went to the AB party (and there were more than a few of those kind), and the majority of the hard core right wingers are part of Fildebrandts tire fire now. Its just that simple. This province doesnt need two large conservative parties nor does it need two "centrist" parties, though i dont think either one of them are truly "center", particularly the Liberals.

The Liberal brand is toxic in Alberta so I do not understand why it continues on the way it does...which is why amalgamating under a different (Alberta Party) banner makes way more sense than not, but nope. Continue to split the 6-10% of popular vote they get combined (though i expect that to surge up to 15% this time) and accomplish very little.

[crazy_eoj]

I was really surprised by how poorly Notley did in this debate, especially considering she basically won the election over the last debate. I don't think there's any chance of the NDP catching the UCP now. I mean, after watching I can't mention a single policy the NDP is proposing to change things in Alberta outside of... more spending.

Kenney was fine, and came across as the most polished or premierlike. Should be enough to hold on to the big lead.

The two also-rans really struggled. I think they missed an opportunity to steal more votes from the NDP. Stephen Mandel is a disaster for the AP, was not able to really grab onto any points and ended up looking ridiculous after the attack from Khan. Why they chose him as a leader over Greg Clark is a serious mystery. If Clark loses his seat we may be seeing the end of the AP altogether?

[Weitz]

Do they do anymore debates or just local ones?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No, the most important thing was to stop slitting one anothers throats at the voting booth.

I was part of that thing from early on and it was individual party members that OVERWHELMINGLY voted to merge because there was just not enough difference for the two parties to continue on as separate entities. WR was 95% in favor and PC was 85% IIRC...could be wrong on numbers but it wasn't even close.

So to claim there was "substantial" differences between the two is patently false. The membership would never have agreed to the merge otherwise. There were small factions in both parties that wanted nothing to do with one another, no question, but average jane certainly was not part of that.

The majority of the Liberal part of the PC party departed and went to the AB party (and there were more than a few of those kind), and the majority of the hard core right wingers are part of Fildebrandts tire fire now. Its just that simple. This province doesnt need two large conservative parties nor does it need two "centrist" parties, though i dont think either one of them are truly "center", particularly the Liberals.

The Liberal brand is toxic in Alberta so I do not understand why it continues on the way it does...which is why amalgamating under a different (Alberta Party) banner makes way more sense than not, but nope. Continue to split the 6-10% of popular vote they get combined (though i expect that to surge up to 15% this time) and accomplish very little.

Losing a single election was enough to abandon a 50 year old party in favour of an amalgamation that would 'win'.

To me, that's Craven political opportunism.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by transplant99

This province doesnt need two large conservative parties nor does it need two "centrist" parties, though i dont think either one of them are truly "center", particularly the Liberals.

Im curious as to how you view them, and what “centrist” is in your opinion?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Losing a single election was enough to abandon a 50 year old party in favour of an amalgamation that would 'win'.

To me, that's Craven political opportunism.

Here's the thing...that 50 year old party was not what it had been even 15 years previous. It had been hijacked by the Liberal faction within. Even the WR crushed them in the last election seat wise. They were heading to irrelevance.

The day that Klein announced he was going to be stepping down after one more term, the vultures within started circling.

Stelmach and Redford were both part of that stuff and sent the PC's down a road they were not prepared to travel. They abandoned base ideals and support that Klein had solidified the previous decade and a half. That's why there was a split to the WR to begin with.

This was a long time in the making and the results of the last election were no surprise when all was said and done because of a plethora of missteps by many. But without question the "right" was always headed to this after the Smith/anderson floor crossing.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Corral

Why the AP and Liberals don't merge is beyond me.

It really is baffling. What, exactly, is the point of the provincial Liberal party? Their brand is toxic in this province. The creation of the Alberta Party was a recognition that province could use a centrist voice, and that the Liberal party wasn't it. But the two parties cannibalize each others votes and dilute an already weak candidate pool. Right-wing parties don't seem to have a problem recognizing that they're splitting the vote and carrying out a merger. Why is it unthinkable to centrist parties?

[Shazam]

Never underestimate the egos of anybody running in politics.

It ain't the common good of the people that attracts people into politics, folks.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Im curious as to how you view them, and what “centrist” is in your opinion?

The Liberals in Alberta? They are left of center just as the UCP is right of center.

Stop spending billions more than they receive without tax after tax being raised or implemented, and i will move them to the center.

Both the LP and the AP are promising to spend and spend to fix things but no where do they explain how they will pay for it as well as reduce the 90 or 100 BILLION dollars that are already owed.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It really is baffling. What, exactly, is the point of the provincial Liberal party? Their brand is toxic in this province. The creation of the Alberta Party was a recognition that province could use a centrist voice, and that the Liberal party wasn't it. But the two parties cannibalize each others votes and dilute an already weak candidate pool. Right-wing parties don't seem to have a problem recognizing that they're splitting the vote and carrying out a merger. Why is it unthinkable to centrist parties?

I agree you can't win anything with a red logo or the word 'liberal' in it in Alberta, but they don't merge because they have different policy values.

Why not advocate they all fold in with the NDP?

Why does this always seem to happen on the right side of the spectrum?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I was really surprised by how poorly Notley did in this debate, especially considering she basically won the election over the last debate. I don't think there's any chance of the NDP catching the UCP now. I mean, after watching I can't mention a single policy the NDP is proposing to change things in Alberta outside of... more spending.

Kenney was fine, and came across as the most polished or premierlike. Should be enough to hold on to the big lead.

The two also-rans really struggled. I think they missed an opportunity to steal more votes from the NDP. Stephen Mandel is a disaster for the AP, was not able to really grab onto any points and ended up looking ridiculous after the attack from Khan. Why they chose him as a leader over Greg Clark is a serious mystery. If Clark loses his seat we may be seeing the end of the AP altogether?

Me too. I feel she's the only thing going for the party and expected her to come off as polished and confident. Maybe being it's easier to be in the underdog role she was in last election.

[Flash Walken]

Kenney is also a much better politician than Jim Prentice was.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The Liberals in Alberta? They are left of center just as the UCP is right of center.

Stop spending billions more than they receive without tax after tax being raised or implemented, and i will move them to the center.

Both the LP and the AP are promising to spend and spend to fix things but no where do they explain how they will pay for it as well as reduce the 90 or 100 BILLION dollars that are already owed.

You have to understand most of the posters here are young and have never ever lived in a period of normalized interest rates. Money liquidity is as high as it's ever been, so borrowing $950K to buy a house when you make $70K seems like a reasonable thing to do. After all, I deserve granite countertops and biking to work. Extend that to government and heck, I deserve... well, whatever the hell the provincial gov't does.

People can't fathom why Klein wanted to buy back bonds that were paying out at 12%. This is not a thing that pops into their heads. People don't know that there was a time when it took convincing for people to buy gov't bonds, because there simply literally (and yes kiddies, I'm using that word properly) wasn't enough money in the world.

Luckily interest rates will stay low forever. Phew.

[Erick Estrada]

I would have no issues with a centrist government in Alberta even if it was under the Liberal label. I long for the day where left and right wing politics are deemed archaic and outdated.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Kenney is also a much better politician than Jim Prentice was.

This is sort of what worries me. At the core of it, Kenney is a career politician who's brand of politics is best served in a conservative vacuum. Alberta is that province where he can finally be elected to something of prominent lead role. I see him as more of an opportunist and populist than as really caring about this province; self-serving means if you will. But everyone will view him differently.

[crazy_eoj]

Notley's greatest hits album just keeps churning....

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Stop spending billions more than they receive without tax after tax being raised or implemented, and i will move them to the center.

Just so I understand this correctly: are you suggesting that the LP and AP are left of center strictly because their spending is higher than revenue and that a centrist party has balanced spending? If so, what is a right of center party in this spectrum?

Both the LP and the AP are promising to spend and spend to fix things but no where do they explain how they will pay for it as well as reduce the 90 or 100 BILLION dollars that are already owed.

I think that's largely true, however, the LP's claim that all of Alberta's fiscal issues will be solved with a new sales tax. They have an explanation whether you believe it is a different thing.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I think that's largely true, however, the LP's claim that all of Alberta's fiscal issues will be solved with a new sales tax. They have an explanation whether you believe it is a different thing.

It's worked for all the other provinces that have a sales tax, so it should work here.

[Ozy_Flame]

This made me laugh:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1114176652672524289

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Just so I understand this correctly: are you suggesting that the LP and AP are left of center strictly because their spending is higher than revenue and that a centrist party has balanced spending? If so, what is a right of center party in this spectrum?



I think that's largely true, however, the LP's claim that all of Alberta's fiscal issues will be solved with a new sales tax. They have an explanation whether you believe it is a different thing.

Fiscally? Yes.

There is a time and place for any government to go into the red when needed. The part that is missing is how to then get out of it to at least a somewhat balanced debt to revenue ratio. That can NEVER happen without reeling in the spending though. No one seems to address that however. Their just has to be some austerity measures attached.

I mean how can anyone justify that this province will be paying billions and billions of dollars in just interest payments? Meanwhile, they pay hundreds of millions more to new public sector employees to provide "better" services of which many have shown to be worse than before! Its untenable and frankly completely asinine.

As for the HST, I am not opposed to it, but from what I gathered from Khan last night, its wont replace anything else. It will just be a 10% increase on the existing GST without addressing the core problem of "needing" it to begin with. No thanks.

I understand that i am in the minority in these views and accept that. I have seen this movie before in this province and its truly frightening. More than that, it is/was entirely unnecessary. We can get out of it in a fairly short time if the right decisions are made though which are going to include some painful cuts as well as a big fight with the feds. Its not a fight Alberta asked for nor wanted, but its one that must be fought.