Your Opinion- Ticket Sales on CP

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Oh, that's right, not sure why I thought it was Ticketmaster. Thanks for the correction.

Now I remember, it was the Paradise Papers that showed that Julien Lavalee was buying millions of tickets on Ticketmaster and reselling them on Ticketmaster, StubHub and VividSeats, pricing many events out of the budget of most fans. He still operates his "superscalper" business out of Boucherville, Quebec.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I would ask a simple question to answer your question.

When the rule was established originally, what was the reasoning? Did something change that makes that reason irrelevant now?

Simply put, when the CP rules were put into place scalping was illegal. That law was successfully challenged about 10 years ago; which makes scalping "no longer illegal."

The other consideration is the time spent moderating. It is a fair amount of work making sure that posts follow the rules. So as a team we had been discussing how we wanted to handle ticket sales issues, and it was suggested that we open it up for discussion. On one hand, the logic says you would have a better chance at a decent priced ticket on CP. If there is a $120 face value ticket and as a seller I want to get $160 for it; to post it on NHL Ticketexchange the buyer has to pay over $200 for it.

On the other hand, it is true that by limiting to face value it does keep it more of a community.

As for Bronco dude, I am pretty sure he has an account on here. Not that I think he would start selling if we allowed sales over face; however I think if the rule is face only- you might be selling to him. That's one thought I don't like. It's one thing to offer a deal to a fellow fan to let them enjoy a game without breaking the bank. It's another to give a deal so he can make more money.

[bizaro86]

Thanks to Ken and all the mods!

I think keeping workload down for volunteers who run the community has to be a factor.

I think an experiment for this playoffs might be warranted. Tighten up the requirements to post in that forum in the board software a bit, and then let the market price be the price. I think that should actually be less work for the mods.

At the end of the playoffs in June, reevaluate and see how it went. If it went well, continue, if not, go back to the current rules.

I had never thought that folks could be buying on CP to scalp elsewhere. I've had a few regular buyers who don't post much elsewhere...

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Thanks to Ken and all the mods!

I think keeping workload down for volunteers who run the community has to be a factor.

I think an experiment for this playoffs might be warranted. Tighten up the requirements to post in that forum in the board software a bit, and then let the market price be the price. I think that should actually be less work for the mods.

At the end of the playoffs in June, reevaluate and see how it went. If it went well, continue, if not, go back to the current rules.

I had never thought that folks could be buying on CP to scalp elsewhere. I've had a few regular buyers who don't post much elsewhere...

Yeah that never crossed my mind either.

I think if it lessens the load on mods, then it should be explored as well.

Its thankless job for the most part, and there is something to be said for letting the market dictate the price for sure. Since it is no longer illegal, i think the answer gets easier decide.

[malcolmk14]

As someone who has playoff tickets this year and there being a good chance the Flames can go deep, I'm alright with an experiment year to open up prices and see how it goes, even though I voted face value only... Haha.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Thanks to Ken and all the mods!



I think keeping workload down for volunteers who run the community has to be a factor.



I think an experiment for this playoffs might be warranted. Tighten up the requirements to post in that forum in the board software a bit, and then let the market price be the price. I think that should actually be less work for the mods.



At the end of the playoffs in June, reevaluate and see how it went. If it went well, continue, if not, go back to the current rules.



I had never thought that folks could be buying on CP to scalp elsewhere. I've had a few regular buyers who don't post much elsewhere...

Hahaha I had a conversation with one and he said that for any big game (at this time we were explicitly talking about Iggy's first game back as a bruin) he refreshes CP every 15 minutes to look for deals he can then scalp elsewhere. And because the tickets are often electronic, he can usually resell them within a couple hours. Where there is a profit to be had, there is people making a profit.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Hahaha I had a conversation with one and he said that for any big game (at this time we were explicitly talking about Iggy's first game back as a bruin) he refreshes CP every 15 minutes to look for deals he can then scalp elsewhere. And because the tickets are often electronic, he can usually resell them within a couple hours. Where there is a profit to be had, there is people making a profit.

So put that posters name out there so CPers know not to sell to this guy. A fair markup is fine to me if it is a CPer helping a CPer get to a game but I don't like this type of stuff.

[Coach]

I didn’t realize it wa just for playoffs.

Maybe the thread can start at face value, and if anyone wants to offer more for tickets they can do so by PM?

[Smartcar]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I had never thought that folks could be buying on CP to scalp elsewhere.

The thought did cross my mind when I had a set of playoff tix to sell in 2015. I couldn't make it at the last minute and listed them at face value on CP because I wanted a Flames fan to get them, and face value was still a pretty good profit ($820 for a pair that cost $450). I got an immediate response from someone who kept saying he had to check with his buddy, so I looked him up and it looked like most of his activity was selling tix in various locations. So I put him off until I got another enquiry from someone whose posting history was more like a fan's. I voted no because I thought it would be bad for the CP community but I think a trial run for the playoffs would be OK. If the rule is causing a lot of work for the mods that's not fair to them.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Yeah I want to change my vote to “no”. Great points being made here.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Honest question - is the issue of ticket pricing really and truly causing a lot of work for mods?

Are there frequent attempts to list over face value now? I check the ticket exchange from time to time, but only if I may want to use it, and haven’t seen any, myself.
Do they find out by these instances being reported (via the ‘report this post’ link)?
Are we talking about fixing an actual problem, a burdensome problem, or a theoretical one ?

I still am of the opinion that there are other places for profiteering. On CP, the buyer still needs to cooperate with the seller on logistics, so its not an anonymous or purely impersonal transaction

If you want to have an option to save purchasing folks the big stubhub and tickmaster fees, fansfirst I understand is local and takes less of a cut

[ken0042]

Fair question. It all depends on the game. I can go weeks without having to do anything in that forum. For a big game, I'm in there a few times per day. Most of the time the issue is people not following the rules; and the single biggest is the WTB posts. With the WTB posts we have asked that people do whatever they can to show they are not interested in over face value. However several times per week there will be posts saying "200 level." Which has a range of the 2nd cheapest (greens), to the most expensive (Silver and Gold.) Removing the "not over face value" rule moves something like that to being just a post that people may not reply to.

A couple of pages back somebody mentioned getting a warning for being a few dollars over. Once again, not having an over face value rule makes that point moot.

I usually end up doing 90% of the ticket forum moderation. Which is fine, and I don't mind making that my contribution to the forum. One of the other mods does 90% of the new user approvals. We also have all kinds of members who do other things here that make this site great. So I don't mind doing my part. I just want to make sure that I am doing what the majority wants me to be; as opposed to having my own ticket forum dictatorship going.

I do also want to say to everybody that we appreciate all the feedback. It's great to be able to have a good discussion about this.

[Ducay]

Never understood why there was such hard rules on CPuck. Often resulted in certain mods acting as sleuths or PIs trying to "catch" posters and doing assessments on their STH face value or premium game pricing. I understood it was part of the site rules, but always got a good chuckle out the silliness of it.

It isn't illegal, so who cares what two consenting adults agree to? Either allow all sales or allow no sales would be my take. Hard to police price points given there is so much variability

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Bezer

I voted incorrectly. I wanted face value, max. I don't want dirt bags scalping tickets to real fans.

This is such an offensive characterization of a seller.

Anyone who sells above face is a dirt bag
Anyone who doesn’t want to buy above face is a real fan.

Have you ever bought tickets below face? Do you insist on paying face value? Why is face value the difference between dirt bag and good seller? Wouldn’t that logic require you to advocate a season ticket holder price max limit?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Never understood why there was such hard rules on CPuck. Often resulted in certain mods acting as sleuths or PIs trying to "catch" posters and doing assessments on their STH face value or premium game pricing. I understood it was part of the site rules, but always got a good chuckle out the silliness of it.

Citation needed.

It isn't illegal, so who cares what two consenting adults agree to? Either allow all sales or allow no sales would be my take. Hard to police price points given there is so much variability

Are we still talking about hockey tickets?

[It's a great day 4 hockey]

Originally Posted by GGG

This is such an offensive characterization of a seller.

Anyone who sells above face is a dirt bag
Anyone who doesn’t want to buy above face is a real fan.

Have you ever bought tickets below face? Do you insist on paying face value? Why is face value the difference between dirt bag and good seller? Wouldn’t that logic require you to advocate a season ticket holder price max limit?

I used to work at co-op in their customer service (2008 - 2011) and for a while had to sell to people that I knew were just turning around and selling them. I saw many kids turned away time and time again because of them. It got to the point I refused to sell to one that I knew was a scalper. He got upset and i almost came over the wicket to throttle him. He left and I reported it to management. They looked at the tape and put me on a month's stress leave. That's how close I came to making the news over ticket scalpers.

No way people like this should have this place as another option to offload "their" tickets.

[FurnaceFace]

I’ve sold tickets here.

I like that the tickets are going to Flames fans, and people who are part of the CP community who will enjoy them.
I sell with more confidence people aren’t just going to resell them.
I also sell with more confidence they are going to be good fans and not jerks which is of semi importance to the other season ticket holders around us.

If it’s no longer illegal then I’d say allow it but put in a reasonably high post count to discourage the potential “kijiji effect”. Perhaps 100 posts.

Buyers are smart and can identify those who may only be on the site to just sell tickets and not be part of the community. If someone got screwed over on the site it would get out rather quickly. To me that’s a huge benefit of buying/selling on CP.

[GullFoss]

What happens if it’s a Flames vs leafs finals and my choices are: sell on cp at face or sell off cp for $6,000 to a leafs fan. Is there a price that is above face but below $6k that might be “good enough” for me to sell on calgarypuck?

What if there is a level between face and market price that makes a cp buyer and cp seller happy? That transaction is currently not allowed. It hurts buyers more than sellers.

What I am getting at is that I can always get a better price on kijiji - I sell on cp for less because I want to. Increasing the Max price allowed on cp doesn’t mean I’m going to bump up my price on cp. First, if I ask for market, it probably won’t sell because everything at cp sells at a discount. Second, I could already get a market price today, but I’m leaving money on the table on purpose. I’m not going to price at ceiling just because I can.

Very likely, increasing max price results in more supply for buyers, and reduces prices.

Source- I’m an economist

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ aren’t the mods asking for practical purposes?

If they want to write a textbook on the considerations of managing a hockey related forum with an off topic forum and the intent and potential implications of a limited scope marketplace, that could be a paragraph in a chapter.

[TheAlpineOracle]

As someone who sells tickets on here for games I can’t attend, this whole “hockey community” argument is a not doing it for me. I’ve never sold my tickets on here for even face value and most times I actually sell them for less than I actually paid for them and even after all that I always gets 4-5 people asking me if I will take less. They have no problem taking advantage of me for a Tuesday game against Columbus but the minute the Leafs come to town or we make the playoffs the same people have a problem with me recouping some of my losses over the year?

Let the market dictate price.