Critical Amber Alert

[Sliver]

We'll see, guys. It will be improved with a view to help it achieve more targeted warnings with fewer disruptions and it will happen quickly. I believe you are wrong to think it is just fine the way it is and I think improving it to be less disruptive to people that cannot help will be the goal of upcoming changes. Time will tell if I'm right or if you are right, but we're going to have to wait and see.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I was awake, the rest of you really need to start drinking coffee at 9pm.

I got the first alert at around 10pm. Don’t even need coffee at 9pm to still be awake then.

Not to be dismissive of anybody’s sleep complaints, but if you’re a white collar worker and you’re disturbed enough at 10pm on a Friday night by loud unexpected noises on your phone to complain about it, maybe yelling at clouds would be less embarrassing than doing it on a forum or in any kind of media.

[Slava]

I’m rather surprised at the complaints. It’s the first time I can remember receiving one of these, so I just don’t think it’s a big deal. If they were sending these 3-4 times a week I can see people getting upset. But one time in an emergency seems like a pretty petty reason to be upset.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Just like how my parents heard all the research about Nintendo killing my brain back in the 80s. And my parents' parents heard the research telling them that TV would kill their kids. And their parents heard it about radio.

Sorry, but the research is out and it's damning. This isn't old people wringing their hands over new things.

In 20 years people will look back at the enormous amount of time kids were allowed on devices today the same way we look back on parents smoking in cars and at the dinner table. They'll wonder what the #### we were thinking.

There's a reason the bigwigs in Silicon Valley severely limit their children's access to devices. They know exactly what they've built.

https://www.businessinsider.com/sili...ed-flag-2018-2

[Sliver]

I honestly don't think anyone is upset. I just don't think - as an example - that my grade seven kid needed to be woken at midnight for this type of problem. I also don't subscribe to the idea it's all the people in Alberta get called or none of the people in Alberta get called - I think technology has advanced enough that we can target text messages to individual demographics.

How about people 16-67 get the message to be on the lookout. I believe we are getting pretty young below that threshold and old above it. Let's let those people sleep based on a predetermined threshold like after 9pm old and young don't need to be alerted. Boom, 489,689 people were just spared a disturbed sleep by just slightly narrowing the focus. Isn't that an example of a slight improvement you could see them working on? Why are you so closed to - and angry about - the mere suggestion that there is room for improvement with our new system?

I also wonder if this type of system has been used elsewhere and what kind of data is available on its efficacy after repeated alarms. Do people care less about the alerts the more they hear them? I would guess yes, which would be another good reason to narrow the focus of the alerts.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Sorry, but the research is out and it's damning. This isn't old people wringing their hands over new things.

In 20 years people will look back at the enormous amount of time kids were allowed on devices today the same way we look back on parents smoking in cars and at the dinner table. They'll wonder what the #### we were thinking.

There's a reason the bigwigs in Silicon Valley severely limit their children's access to devices. They know exactly what they've built.

https://www.businessinsider.com/sili...ed-flag-2018-2

I feel like everything that is done today you feel will be looked back on in shame in 20 years.

[stang]

Originally Posted by Buff

The simplest solution is to not give your kids a phone a such a young age. They dont need it. You cannot give me one reason to rationalize it. They simply do not need it. No excuses. I keep hearing about research on how kids having devices is detrimental to their brains development. I have seen it first hand wih my own kids. They cannot control themselves. Most adults cannot control themselves when it comes to phone/device usage. Don't tell me otherwise about your kids because you would be lying to me and especially yourself.

My 12 and 9 year olds devices come out of their rooms at night. They don’t need that in there

[stang]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I honestly don't think anyone is upset. I just don't think - as an example - that my grade seven kid needed to be woken at midnight for this type of problem.

Seriously, take your kids phones out of their rooms at bedtime. It’s better for them all around. No temptation, just pure uninterrupted sleep.

[djsFlames]

I'm glad for the emergency alert being able to reach everyone and get their attention. Very glad.

Especially when it comes to little kids going missing.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Look online, there are plenty of people uninstalling and deactivating the app or functionality. (That ignores all the people suggesting people who dont like it should turn off their phones at night). They now get no notifications. Improving the system to have it just as functional while not driving people off is the goal.

The provincial, and national alert systems (radio/carrier/ota/tv) do not require an app. You are mistaken.

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yes it will. I'll bet you $20 as well. That's $40 I've got at stake now. Kids are getting phones younger and younger. Mine had them at nine. Nine-year-olds don't need to be jarred awake at midnight for Amber Alerts.

Sorry I'm late to reply, was out for the evening.

Before proceeding with the bet, your ideas, for posterity;

Originally Posted by Sliver

Maybe if a phone hasn't been accessed for 60 minutes between 10pm and 7am the system would assume the person is sleeping or something? IDK, but there will be a solution I'm sure.

"Essentially, not applying the alert to a dormant device."

Originally Posted by Sliver

I know for a fact my fast-asleep 12-year-old daughter wasn't going to hop out of bed and solve this crime, so we didn't need to wake her up. .

"Essentially, allowing the authorities to both identify subscribers by age, and thereby putting them on an ignore list."

Apologies if I missed any, as I browsed through the last few pages, but if those are your suggestions that you're willing to bet on.. And well, the frequency auctions, and post-mortem competitiveness debates will be well over. Lots of time for this "radical" departure from the CRTC/Feds national Emergency Alert program to be totally revisited.

Thus, I'll bet 2:1 odds; $200 if you win, $100 to me, that your ideas will not be implemented, within the next 12 months. How could you possibly say no?


Also for anyone interested, relevant reading below;
https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/television/services/alert.htm
https://emergencyalert.alberta.ca/

[Kaine]

As someone with a sleep disorder that can and often does cause hours to pass before I can fall asleep after being woken up I cannot see a valid argument for anyone complaining about this type of alert. Yes of course 99.999999% of people getting this won't be able to help in any way, but it only takes one. To those complaining, yes in a perfect world a better, more intuitive system would be ideal, but is something like this that is very rarely (hopefully) going to happen really the hill you want to die on? That said the dog-piling in this thread really has gone overboard...

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I honestly don't think anyone is upset. I just don't think - as an example - that my grade seven kid needed to be woken at midnight for this type of problem. I also don't subscribe to the idea it's all the people in Alberta get called or none of the people in Alberta get called - I think technology has advanced enough that we can target text messages to individual demographics.



How about people 16-67 get the message to be on the lookout. I believe we are getting pretty young below that threshold and old above it. Let's let those people sleep based on a predetermined threshold like after 9pm old and young don't need to be alerted. Boom, 489,689 people were just spared a disturbed sleep by just slightly narrowing the focus. Isn't that an example of a slight improvement you could see them working on? Why are you so closed to - and angry about - the mere suggestion that there is room for improvement with our new system?



I also wonder if this type of system has been used elsewhere and what kind of data is available on its efficacy after repeated alarms. Do people care less about the alerts the more they hear them? I would guess yes, which would be another good reason to narrow the focus of the alerts.

I keep getting the impression from your comments that you think the amber alert is to get people out of bed, leave their house, and start searching for these people.

Again, somebody under 16 and over 67 still would have some reason to have some information to help the authorities. Unless you are literally an infant or are in a coma, you might know something about the whereabouts or have recognized seeing the car going in a certain direction down a road.

[Drummer]

Everyone:

The alert system has different “levels” that the government / CRTC can choose when sending out an alert.

The one that was sent out in this situation was a “presidential alert” which causes the phone / TV to make the sound that we all heard.

The “Amber Alert” level that the government can send out has the same visual on our phones that we all received... but a different sound. The sound it makes is a text message sound. Whatever your text messages sound like, this is what the “Amber Alert” setting does.

When I was in the US (North Dakota) about a year and half ago I received an Amber Alert because a child got abducted close by. The visual was the same style as what we all just received, by the sound was different. It was a text message sound.

I don’t know if Canada has different alert levels like the US does. The “Presidential Alert” level sound that we all got is meant for things like “fire” or “tsunami”.... at least in the US it is.

Also in the US on an iPhone you can choose your notifications setting for “Presidential Alert” and “Amber Alert” to be on or off individually. In Canada this setting isn’t available. I think it’s built into iOS that way.

[Matt Reeeeead]

If you do t want an amber alert, use a clock radio as an alarm and keep your phone in another room.

Problem solved. Quit whining, and use some self accountability for an easily solvable issue.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PepsiFree]

Again, there is only one level in Canada, which cannot be overridden or shut off. It is not the same as the US.

[Cuz]

To my knowledge, the emergency alerts are not only for amber alerts, but for all kinds of emergencies. I know if a tornado was coming my way, or WWIII has erupted, I would like to be awoke so I could take the steps necessary for survival.

[DownInFlames]

My cat just turned on my clock radio and woke me up. Can I join the bitch session?

[Reggie28]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Again, there is only one level in Canada, which cannot be overridden or shut off. It is not the same as the US.

The alerts came through as vibrate only on my iPhone. The ringer is usually turned off, as I can hear or feel the phone vibrate.

They did a good job on the television alert as well. The alert must have been “overlayed” on top of the broadcast, rather than actually replacing the broadcast. I was a little behind in the game, so the alert came in with about 2 minutes left in the third. I was able to rewind and watch what I missed. (Wanted to see if Chucky was going to get 6!).

Telus service on both.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by stang

Seriously, take your kids phones out of their rooms at bedtime. It’s better for them all around. No temptation, just pure uninterrupted sleep.

I have parental apps on their phones that lock them down 8pm - 7am, so it isn't a problem.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

The provincial, and national alert systems (radio/carrier/ota/tv) do not require an app. You are mistaken.



Sorry I'm late to reply, was out for the evening.

Before proceeding with the bet, your ideas, for posterity;

"Essentially, not applying the alert to a dormant device."


"Essentially, allowing the authorities to both identify subscribers by age, and thereby putting them on an ignore list."

Apologies if I missed any, as I browsed through the last few pages, but if those are your suggestions that you're willing to bet on.. And well, the frequency auctions, and post-mortem competitiveness debates will be well over. Lots of time for this "radical" departure from the CRTC/Feds national Emergency Alert program to be totally revisited.

Thus, I'll bet 2:1 odds; $200 if you win, $100 to me, that your ideas will not be implemented, within the next 12 months. How could you possibly say no?


Also for anyone interested, relevant reading below;
https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/television/services/alert.htm
https://emergencyalert.alberta.ca/

I'd rather word the bet like this because I don't know the tech behind how it could be implemented, but am confident in the following:

'Within 12 months of March 15, 2019, the phone notification alert system will be modified to be more surgical in its blasts to ensure fewer people will be notified of potential issues. The purpose of this would be to not disturb people with a low probability of being able to help and to target those with a higher probability of being able to assist.'

I'm not trying to move the goalposts, rather just trying to be super specific and not leave wiggle room for you or me in the bet. I'd rather keep it at $20, so let me know if you accept.

On payment, if there is no public way to find out if they have changed the system by March 19, 2020, I'd consider that a win for you.

If the system hasn't changed in the way I'm expecting within the year due to cost, lack of technology, lack of will, but is changed later than the year, it's still your win.

This bet is with cam_wmh only, so I don't need half the forum messaging me in a year looking for $20 if I lose. Finally, the spirit of the bet from my perspective is I this: I think the Amber Alert system is great and am thankful we have it, but I think it can be improved to limit disruption and I believe the managers of the system would agree with me and assure us they are looking to do just that. That is what my money is on.