Alberta Politics Thread v2

[Joborule]

Yeah, I get that as a method of sending a message that you aren't content with any of the candidates, and if a significant portion of the population wasn't, and did do that, it would actually draw attention to all parties. But it's still the same result as status quo since the vote doesn't count.

Matter of opinion but if I'm going to bother to vote, then I'm going to give it to someone I dislike the least so then I can hope that out of all the crappy options, the one I vote for will actually be the one in office.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Yeah, I get that as a method of sending a message that you aren't content with any of the candidates, and if a significant portion of the population wasn't, and did do that, it would actually draw attention to all parties. But it's still the same result as status quo since the vote doesn't count.

Matter of opinion but if I'm going to bother to vote, then I'm going to give it to someone I dislike the least so then I can hope that out of all the crappy options, the one I vote for will actually be the one in office.

Right, and if instead of voting for someone you dislike the least, you actually voted for someone you like the most or chose to spoil your ballot, you would become one of the many needed to make those votes meaningful.

People don’t vote for the Alberta Party (or insert any minor party) because they don’t stand a chance of winning. People don’t spoil there ballots because “nobody else does.” These are common reasons, but one vote really doesn’t matter regardless of who you vote for, so why vote for someone you dislike?

If we all actually made the vote that we felt was best, and in absence of any suitable candidates, made that sentiment known by spoiling the ballot, then we would all be doing democracy a great service. If you sit around waiting for the herd to tell you how to vote, then you do the opposite, and you help perpetuate subpar leaders and subpar platforms, as parties come to know they don’t really have to do anything valuable to get your vote.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Yeah, I get that as a method of sending a message that you aren't content with any of the candidates, and if a significant portion of the population wasn't, and did do that, it would actually draw attention to all parties. But it's still the same result as status quo since the vote doesn't count.

Matter of opinion but if I'm going to bother to vote, then I'm going to give it to someone I dislike the least so then I can hope that out of all the crappy options, the one I vote for will actually be the one in office.

Your rationale is understandable. I’m not advocating against any action other than just not showing up.

But I disagree that if instead of 40% of eligible voters staying home in this upcoming election they all showed up and refused or spoiled ballots that the end result would be the same as status quo. The MLA seat numbers might be the same but the message to the governing party as to it’s mandate and what they must deliver to retain power would be very different.

And while you cannot do anything to get better candidates this time around, think of the good people who might be inspired to put their names forward (even as independents) next time if they knew discontented voters could actually be counted on to show up on Election Day...

[CaptainCrunch]

Honestly I'm not really looking at the Alberta Party because frankly, first of all, Mandal is a dingbat. But second of all, I just don't feel that they've really stepped into the debate, there just doesn't feel like a strategy there.



I barely have an idea of who the candidate is going to be in my riding.



Usually what I'll do is come up with 5 questions that are important to me and I'll send it to the candidates in my riding so I can evaluate where they stand.


I will say in the last election, I didn't get a response from any of them besides a administrator saying that she'll pass the questions on and get the answers to me and the candidate will respond or call me, then I get nothing.


Look it its coming down to leaders in your decision that's fine I respect everyone's right to vote and decide. If its coming down to candidates, then you have the absolute right to evaluate your candidate in whatever manner you choose.



If it comes down to your candidates being worthless airdropped people just to fill a slot on a card, or worthless long terms MLA's that have done nothing for a term or two, and have terrible communication skills with you. For example, after the first year my first year MLA just stopped sending out communications from the Legislature, then you have to take that into account as well. We've got too many happy to be there MLA's.


If you don't think that you can vote for anyone, then I still encourage you to find something to either vote for or some way of protest. But I think that not voting just plays into the parties strategies, they all want low voter turnout whether its the incumbant or not.


The shame of if it is, when I have a friend or relative complaining about the guberment, and yes I meant to spell it that way because I'm fun like that, my first question is not who did you vote for, but did you vote. If the answer is that they couldn't be bothered to vote, I tell them to stop talking, they gave up their right to complain because they didn't participate in a democracy and they are basically sheep lead to slaughter.


Baaaaah

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Yet some Albertans are blindly following his message that conveys a "return" to the good times - oil is back, jobs are plentiful, salaries are best in the country, and double meat at subway. Yet the UCP has no distinct fool-proof plan to get us there; just that they aren't leftists. I also think people like argumentative individuals because our voices aren't heard in Ottawa or BC, so they see him as Klein 2.0. Looking forward to more "creeps and bums" statements that provides a release of endorphins.

Man this is such a straw man argument. If anyone here or anywhere says that electing the UCP will bring back $10/mcf gas and $140/bbl oil with no pipeline constraints please quote them so we can all laugh at that sentiment. There is no doubt however that completion of a coastal pipeline will improve a lot in this province. To me this election is who has the greater chance of delivering us that pipeline.

Notley, to her credit, tried all of 2018 to get it built in the way she thought best which was the amenable strategy. Acquiescing on Northern Gateway, Energy east, voluntarily instituting a carbon tax, and trusting that Trudeau would deliver for her. It didn't work, but I can't fault her for that (except for not fighting at all for NG and EE) because who's to say it wasn't going to work. We tried it and it failed. Now we have the chance to go the other way, we tried being nice and it didn't work, it's time to get aggressive now and push back. Push back against the Feds, push back against BC, push back against the environmental NGOs that have slandered and hemmed in our most valuable resource that we had to give away last year for nothing. Is it "fool-proof"? No its not and that seems like a weird standard to claim to have because nothing ever is. But we've seen that the one tact fail, so it's time to try another.

[V]

I find Kenney revolting, but I’ll vote for the UCP. I’ve been plagued with guilt ever since sharing in the responsibility of voting in the NDP last time. I can’t live with another four years of that guilt.

[Travis Munroe]

DiracSpike... You pretty much hit on what usually takes me 10 sentences to try and explain and I still don't explain it right.

We tried the nice person route and it was a good effort but accomplished nothing at all.
Time to try the not so nice person route. If that too accomplishes nothing, I will enter the next election with a very very open mind to all parties.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by V

I find Kenney revolting, but I’ll vote for the UCP. I’ve been plagued with guilt ever since sharing in the responsibility of voting in the NDP last time. I can’t live with another four years of that guilt.

Nothing to feel guilty about. The PC party was making a mess for decades. The NDP made mistakes of course but they are magnified because oil tanked. If oil hadn't tanked no one would care about much. That's the part of all this that drives me a little crazy.

Again vote for whoever but the only problem this province had is that oil tanked and the government for the past 40 years ignored diversification.

[V]

Don’t tell me what to feel guilty about. There’s plenty for me to feel guilty about, and none of it has to do with oil tanking.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Nothing to feel guilty about. The PC party was making a mess for decades. The NDP made mistakes of course but they are magnified because oil tanked. If oil hadn't tanked no one would care about much. That's the part of all this that drives me a little crazy.

Again vote for whoever but the only problem this province had is that oil tanked and the government for the past 40 years ignored diversification.

Flat out false. Compared to the 1980s when you look at the statistics of the makeup of Alberta’s economy, we are more diversified today than we were in the 1980s. It just not an easy over night thing to do and sometimes it has been failure but it's been slowly happening.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Nothing to feel guilty about. The PC party was making a mess for decades. The NDP made mistakes of course but they are magnified because oil tanked. If oil hadn't tanked no one would care about much. That's the part of all this that drives me a little crazy.

Again vote for whoever but the only problem this province had is that oil tanked and the government for the past 40 years ignored diversification.

So then it doesnt matter who is in charge, which party is elected, who the Premier is, what the platforms are, what the ideas are concerning social change or economic.

As long as Oil doesnt tank.

Thats all that matters.

Cool.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Man this is such a straw man argument. If anyone here or anywhere says that electing the UCP will bring back $10/mcf gas and $140/bbl oil with no pipeline constraints please quote them so we can all laugh at that sentiment. There is no doubt however that completion of a coastal pipeline will improve a lot in this province. To me this election is who has the greater chance of delivering us that pipeline.

Notley, to her credit, tried all of 2018 to get it built in the way she thought best which was the amenable strategy. Acquiescing on Northern Gateway, Energy east, voluntarily instituting a carbon tax, and trusting that Trudeau would deliver for her. It didn't work, but I can't fault her for that (except for not fighting at all for NG and EE) because who's to say it wasn't going to work. We tried it and it failed. Now we have the chance to go the other way, we tried being nice and it didn't work, it's time to get aggressive now and push back. Push back against the Feds, push back against BC, push back against the environmental NGOs that have slandered and hemmed in our most valuable resource that we had to give away last year for nothing. Is it "fool-proof"? No its not and that seems like a weird standard to claim to have because nothing ever is. But we've seen that the one tact fail, so it's time to try another.

The worst thing that you can say about Notley is she's guilible or even soft.


She got played by Trudeau completely, not only on the pipelines, which she enacted a carbon tax that was not part of her election platform to get. But when she went to the Federal Government for help with the rail cars they flat out ignored her.


She got played by Horgan in BC badly, she took one moment of toughness which was the wine ban and showed that she was spineless by lifting it without gaining any concessions. She put in place the mechanics to slowdown the flow of fuels to BC, and the courts even affirmed that BC couldn't sue over it and promptly forgot about it.


She talks tough, but she never ever executes. For that she's going to lose, because the narrative from the other side is that they're going to fight hard with the Federal Government for example.


I think Notley is a nice woman, and she's probably earnest and sincere, but the above, and the fact that she hides behind people like Sarah Hoffman whenever things go wrong, makes me wonder if she's got enough of a spine for a difficult period of time for this province.


Whenever she's talked tough about the Federal Government and BC, the prevailing feeling is that its meaningless chatter.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Locke

So then it doesnt matter who is in charge, which party is elected, who the Premier is, what the platforms are, what the ideas are concerning social change or economic.

As long as Oil doesnt tank.

Thats all that matters.

Cool.

Sadly, with how the country has been run and budgets have been put together for the past 10-15 years (save for Prentice, RIP) that seems to be true.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Sadly, with how the country has been run and budgets have been put together for the past 10-15 years (save for Prentice, RIP) that seems to be true.

Frankly Joe Cici needs to not be allowed anywhere near the finance portfolio in the odd circumstance that the NDP gets elected. His budgets have been a picture of complete incompetence and terrible forecasting and we've paid for that with multiple credit rating reductions.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Sadly, with how the country has been run and budgets have been put together for the past 10-15 years (save for Prentice, RIP) that seems to be true.

Election Canceled. Appoint Murray Edwards as Premier.

[CaptainCrunch]

Interesting story of workers taking a union to court after they felt that they were tricked into certification



https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...new-labour-law

A new labour law in Alberta designed to empower workers has left a group of Calgary labourers saying they feel tricked, bullied and voiceless.

One Icon labourer, who had previously worked at a union work site two years earlier, says he was approached during his lunch hour in October by a union official with Local 1111.


“He told me I owed about $250 in past dues but that the union had a promotion, and if I paid $2 now, I would have what I owed wiped away,” said the worker, who, along with the other four employees spoken to by the Herald, requested anonymity for fear of being blackballed from future work by the union.


So I gave him $2,” says the recent immigrant to Canada. “Who wouldn’t pay $2 to get a $250 debt wiped clean?” asked the worker.


However, “he used my signature not for a receipt, like he said, but to sign me up for the union,” the labourer said.

Under the Alberta NDP government’s new law, private ballot votes are no longer required to certify a union. All that’s needed is for at least 65 per cent of employees at a given site to sign a card and pay $2.


On Dec. 22, the ALRB upheld the union certification after refusing to allow the workers to vote on the certification or strengthen their written statements complaining about the practice.

A third worker at Icon says union officials used dodgy manoeuvres “to get us to sign those union cards.”


This worker never signed a card, however many of his colleagues, who struggle with English, were allegedly told that they needed to pay $2 and sign the card to ensure they receive their pension benefits. Others were reportedly told they would never work in Calgary again if they didn’t sign the card, he said.


“We were harassed,” said the third labourer, who is one of 18 employees on the site.

Leew says he doesn’t believe the workers feel intimidated by him at all, and he told them that if they want the union, he won’t stand in their way. As for the union, however, most of the employees are furious about how they were treated, as demonstrated by their emails and by five employees’ interviews with Postmedia.



“They were told, ‘You’ll never work in this town again,’ (and) ‘you owe the union $200 in arrears, but if you pay $2 and sign this card, your debt will be wiped out,’” said Leew.


One of the workers, who said they voted for the NDP in the May 2015 election, is urging Premier Rachel Notley to make private votes required if a majority of workers ask for one.


“My rights as a worker have been trampled. I am having troubles now making ends meet. I feel totally violated. I hope by speaking out, Rachel Notley will change this undemocratic la

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Interesting story of workers taking a union to court after they felt that they were tricked into certification



https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...new-labour-law

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=167123

You’re a year late to the party captain.

Edit: actually your posted in that thread.

[powderjunkie]

How in the hell is a tougher tact going to work any better?

Do you think Trudeau still would have bought the pipeline to appease an Alberta premier who was totally combative? Do you think Trudeau woke up one day and just decided to pull out the charge card? That transaction would have taken months to negotiate, draw up, and vet. It doesn't take a genius to imagine that Notley's backdowns were likely preceded by a message from Trudeau "if you can play a little nicer with your brother, I'll buy you a nice toy".

You guys wanted Notley to push her chips all-in with a terrible hand. There would have been a slim chance of hitting the nuts, but the far more likely outcome would have been leaving the table altogether. To whatever extent we stayed in the game, our future prospects would be bleak, as the other players just wouldn't bother playing with us.

We can certainly fault Notley for creating uncertainty. With a less measured and strategic approach we could be pretty damn certain that the pipeline was dead

[GGG]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Nothing to feel guilty about. The PC party was making a mess for decades. The NDP made mistakes of course but they are magnified because oil tanked. If oil hadn't tanked no one would care about much. That's the part of all this that drives me a little crazy.

Again vote for whoever but the only problem this province had is that oil tanked and the government for the past 40 years ignored diversification.

Are you aware the % of GDP energy made in 1985 vs the amount today? The answer may surprise you. And before you look please post what you believe to be a suitable level of diversification?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I have very little doubt that people in this province would want Trudeau's ass removed and a bunch of Liberals in prison, but turn a blind eye to any chicanery Kenney is part of. As long as it suits a political narrative, he will have his blind supporters and he can do no wrong. And I do feel like there is "magic bullet" sentiment attached to that, like the UCP and Kenney will return Alberta to 2007-era prosperity again, when its just not in the cards.

I don't think anyone is turning a blind eye to Kenney. I fully support an RCMP investigation and look forward to seeing the results. In fact there is no definitive evidence that say Kenney is under investigation.

Anyone who thinks the UCP will return Alberta to 2007 prosperity is delusional. The debt is much to large to be talking balancing the books. The best we can hope for is a govt that will be more responsible in how are tax dollars are spent.