Alberta Politics Thread v2

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

It’s easy to see who works for the public sector in this thread.

Is it? Where do you think I work? Honest question.

The public sector is like the twilight zone. I can see how many of the employees didn't even notice anything the past four years in my earlier list post.

[PaperBagger'14]

Dont kid yourselves about public sector employees backing the NDP. The NDPs boneheaded PPA carbon tax issue directly caused 20% of Enmax field employees to be laid off or packaged out. The AUC changed their payout structure at first opportunity after the PPA fiasco. The AUC is funded by the Alberta Treasury Board which is headed by local dip**** Joe Ceci.

There are sour public sectors as well.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

No, I simply had to read the context and give them an honest and charitable interpretation. In other words, precisely what the Edmonton Journal did:



https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...-to-save-money

The fact that you don't understand what's wrong with trying to "gotcha" people by taking their words out of context and attaching a meaning they didn't intend to them says nothing good about you.

Kenney is not only failing to realize that not only do those 1000 Edmonton workers at Dynalife need a new facility because the existing one is too small, but also that the as the population grows with the economy, the rate of lab support-to-hospital ratio grows with it. BUilding another hospital in Edmonton without increasing lab services would put them in a far more stressful spot and we'd stil have to spend money - taxpayer money - to build a facility where lab services can operate and serve hospital and clinical facilities.

Further, the consolidation of the community lab services into one larger facility means that common infrastructure can be shared, including but not limited to physical infrastructure, staffing resources, and knowledge management (such as shared DB's and related infrastructure to support it).

There is nothing taken out of context here; Kenney is not understanding that lab services and hospitals are not mutually exclusive; the former supports the latter, even if the two services are in different facilities. And the current facilities are becoming inadequate an inefficient.

You cannot build a new, fully functioning hospital and not increase the capabilities of the associated healthcare services, such as labs - there are consequences in ignoring that second part, even if the first part tugs at the heartstrings of voters.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Travis Munroe

If you base it on platform then Kenney wouldn't be ruled out just yet...

Notley, to her credit, has performed more in line with what would be expected over the last 6-8 months. I don't like her as a leader but with an open mind, I can see improvement.

That said, I don't forget the other 3 and a half years of sitting on her hands and trying to dodge darts. AB needs someone in this current economic state who will not only dodge the darts and throw them back but likely start throwing some first.

Notley's hail mary right now is promising a bunch of non existent money to anyone who asks for it so that the NDP is able to claim that Kenney will cut back her promises which he or any leader for that matter would need to. It is greasy but it works to those who are told they will lose hours or their job if Kenney gets in.

As Churchill once said, " The problem with socialists is that they soon run out of other people's money."

[Dion]

Alberta NDP prepping health care bill when legislature resumes sitting

Looks like the writ won't be dropped next Monday

Hoffman says she’s been considering it for awhile and she’s not trying to deepen a policy wedge between the NDP government and Opposition Leader Jason Kenney’s United Conservatives.

“It’s something I’ve been grappling with for a few years in how we could find ways to improve and strengthen the public health-care system here in Alberta. I think, why not today?” Hoffman said at the legislature Wednesday.

She could not give details on her intended bill because parliamentary rules dictate the contents must be given to legislators before the public.

Sources have told The Canadian Press that the proposed law will be the government’s signature bill of the new session, which begins Monday with a throne speech. Hoffman said she could not confirm that.

A bill could be introduced and debated or it could be abandoned altogether should Premier Rachel Notley decide to call an election after the throne speech. A vote must be held, by law, by May 31.

https://calgaryherald.com/pmn/news-p...a-6186bb56f9b3

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

This is a big part of the reason why I think people complaining about early platform releases are a little bit over reaching.


Chances are that if you have a solid piece of policy its going to get claimed by the other parties that you're running against and it looses its effectiveness in any debate.


We released this XYZ platform which will serve to do ABC and save people X dollars per year.


Yeah we have the same platform.


Effectiveness lost.

We need to demand better.

If Notley steals and implements a few things from Kenny’s platform that are good for Alberta we win. If Kenny steals things from Notley we win.

Allowing politicians to not disclose their plans as we elect them based on jersey colour.

Every year the opposition party should be required to present a full shadow budget and throne speech in the same level of detail as the government. It should be expected that opposition bills get full reading and debate and discussion in the house. An opposition parties goal should be to get as much of their agenda implemented as they can.

I know this isn’t going to happen but the public and the media need to demand better. Notley and Kenny not having full platforms and projected budgets out right now and an election not being called is not acceptable.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by GGG

I know this isn’t going to happen but the public and the media need to demand better. Notley and Kenny not having full platforms and projected budgets out right now and an election not being called is not acceptable.

I agree we need to demand better. The problem here for the NDP is doing another budget will earn them another credit downgrade.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Dion

Alberta NDP prepping health care bill when legislature resumes sitting

Looks like the writ won't be dropped next Monday





https://calgaryherald.com/pmn/news-p...a-6186bb56f9b3

I suspect this is an election strategy. The goal is to give this bill a fancy name like Ensuring health Care delivery for All Abertans. Have a bunch of reasonable stuff in the front and a bunch of poison pills limiting private delivery of public services in the back that Kenny (and most people) will oppose.

Once Kenny and the UCPs have stuck their foot in their mouths with enough bad quotes the election will be called on Kenny will gut heath care platform.

Just garbage. There is no reason this legislation couldn’t have been ready last year if it was going to be a Significant bill.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by GGG

I suspect this is an election strategy. The goal is to give this bill a fancy name like Ensuring health Care delivery for All Abertans. Have a bunch of reasonable stuff in the front and a bunch of poison pills limiting private delivery of public services in the back that Kenny (and most people) will oppose.

Once Kenny and the UCPs have stuck their foot in their mouths with enough bad quotes the election will be called on Kenny will gut heath care platform.

Just garbage. There is no reason this legislation couldn’t have been ready last year if it was going to be a Significant bill.

The UCP won't be happy with this stalling tactic by the NDP. I can just imagine Notley and her minions trying to draw/sucker Kenney into saying something they can use against them. It could be that the UCP will refuse to debate or vote on this bill saying they won't get involved with the political games the Dippers are trying to create.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I agree we need to demand better. The problem here for the NDP is doing another budget will earn them another credit downgrade.

I dont think I could stomach watching Ceci stumble, bumble and mumble his way through another budget announcement.

I'm just not sure I could take it and thus far my strong recommendation of the addition of a vaudevillian hook and a slide-whistle to the proceedings have gone woefully unheeded.

[monkeyman]

Just what we need, another hastily drawn up plan from the NDP. I wonder how much this one will cost the residence of Alberta.

The NDP are like Pedro. "Vote for us and we'll make all your wildest dreams come true."

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

What Kenney said was that the money the NDP spent on this lab should have been spent on a hospital, because that would address capacity issues and the money would go to treating actual patients. This is not by any stretch of the imagination a crazy or outlandish thing to say. Whether or not you agree with that difference of opinion about how our tax dollars should have been spent in this particular case, it's obviously not some "gotcha" statement that can be laid at the feet of the UCP as a gaffe or anything. Characterizing it like that is dishonest.

Hospitals need doctors, nurses, unit clerks, medical technicians, porters, security, custodial, food services, supplies, etc. etc. etc.

Healthcare is a complex mess. It's like a rock battered passenger ferry in an unending rainstorm. And more passengers show up every day, wanting you to ferry them from A to B quickly and comfortably, but don't want to pay any more.

Do you try to bail out water? Plug the holes? Try to direct the falling rain off the ship? Buy umbrellas and rain boots for the passengers? Or just build a new ship?

The answer is: all of the above, but obviously you need to direct your resources where they are needed most.

I can't say whether lab services or a new hospital would help more, but they are absolutely not equivalent amounts of spending.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Dion

Alberta NDP prepping health care bill when legislature resumes sitting

Looks like the writ won't be dropped next Monday





https://calgaryherald.com/pmn/news-p...a-6186bb56f9b3

Disgusting imo and I hope people see through it.
"Not trying to deepend a policy wedge between the NDP and UCP" but we are going to drop this huge bill just a matter of months before we know we are likely out because the bill is going to sound really fancy and the UCP are going to be forced to say it will be scrapped and look like the bad people.

Why doesn't the NDP just come out and offer every Alberta $500 while they are at it?

[Jacks]

If they are planning for a spring sitting that is a last minute change by my understanding. If they do it's for purely political reasons to try and create a wedge issue IMO.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Hospitals need doctors, nurses, unit clerks, medical technicians, porters, security, custodial, food services, supplies, etc. etc. etc.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Kenney is not only failing to realize that not only do those 1000 Edmonton workers at Dynalife need a new facility because the existing one is too small, but also that the as the population grows with the economy, the rate of lab support-to-hospital ratio grows with it. BUilding another hospital in Edmonton without increasing lab services would put them in a far more stressful spot and we'd stil have to spend money - taxpayer money - to build a facility where lab services can operate and serve hospital and clinical facilities.

Why on Earth are you guys quoting me and making policy arguments about the relative benefits of the superlab? Do you not get that I'm just objecting to the way people are inaccurately characterizing the guy's position? Is it just impossible for you to distinguish that from support for his position?

So many questions, and all the answers are depressing.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Dion

As Churchill once said, " The problem with socialists is that they soon run out of other people's money."

That was Margaret Thatcher not Churchill and it wasn't even a direct quote. She believed in trickle down economics. Enough said.

It's a great quote though I love turning complicated economic policies into one line meme headlines. No one is aiming for socialism. The provincial NDP are not the same as the federal.

Originally Posted by Travis Munroe

If you base it on platform then Kenney wouldn't be ruled out just yet...

Notley, to her credit, has performed more in line with what would be expected over the last 6-8 months. I don't like her as a leader but with an open mind, I can see improvement.

That said, I don't forget the other 3 and a half years of sitting on her hands and trying to dodge darts. AB needs someone in this current economic state who will not only dodge the darts and throw them back but likely start throwing some first.

Notley's hail mary right now is promising a bunch of non existent money to anyone who asks for it so that the NDP is able to claim that Kenney will cut back her promises which he or any leader for that matter would need to. It is greasy but it works to those who are told they will lose hours or their job if Kenney gets in.

I don't like some of the things I've already heard from the UCP. I don't hate or like the NDP either. You haven't forgotten the previous 3 years but I haven't forgotten the previous 30 either. The PC party wasted a lot of money and didn't even attempt to diversify the Alberta economy. This province is in rough shape because oil tanked and the previous party left us with nothing. The UCP aren't going to get a pipeline built and they aren't going to improve oil prices. Add a leader that is by all accounts pretty terrible and its difficult for me to see the appeal at this point.

I'll wait until more info is out and decide at that point.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

That was Margaret Thatcher not Churchill and it wasn't even a direct quote. She believed in trickle down economics. Enough said.

It's a great quote though I love turning complicated economic policies into one line meme headlines. No one is aiming for socialism. The provincial NDP are not the same as the federal.



I don't like some of the things I've already heard from the UCP. I don't hate or like the NDP either. You haven't forgotten the previous 3 years but I haven't forgotten the previous 30 either. The PC party wasted a lot of money and didn't even attempt to diversify the Alberta economy. This province is in rough shape because oil tanked and the previous party left us with nothing. The UCP aren't going to get a pipeline built and they aren't going to improve oil prices. Add a leader that is by all accounts pretty terrible and its difficult for me to see the appeal at this point.

I'll wait until more info is out and decide at that point.

I guess that was my original point. You can't say you vote based on platforms if you already made your mind up on someone who has yet to release their entire platform.

The NDP is like Glen Gulutzen while Keenan, Hartley, Brent Sutter and Playfair are the long-standing PC's of old. It is crystal clear that Gulutzen isn't going to get it done and while many fear that Bill Peters may be even worse than Gulutzen based on what we hear about his past, we are prepared to take the chance. (tongue in cheek comment which actually made more sense to me than I thought it would)

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Why on Earth are you guys quoting me and making policy arguments about the relative benefits of the superlab? Do you not get that I'm just objecting to the way people are inaccurately characterizing the guy's position? Is it just impossible for you to distinguish that from support for his position?

So many questions, and all the answers are depressing.

Somewhat fair point (I guess there was no need to quote you directly), but unless you're going to go through this thread and point out the mischaracterizations of Kenney, UCP, Notley, and NDP (which is damn near every point), I don't get why you're singling this one out?

Was Kenney's position not that money should go to direct patient care, instead of indirect patient care? We're just pointing out that it's a stupid oversimplification.

[Dion]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1105911573804023808

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Travis Munroe

I guess that was my original point. You can't say you vote based on platforms if you already made your mind up on someone who has yet to release their entire platform.

The NDP is like Glen Gulutzen while Keenan, Hartley, Brent Sutter and Playfair are the long-standing PC's of old. It is crystal clear that Gulutzen isn't going to get it done and while many fear that Bill Peters may be even worse than Gulutzen based on what we hear about his past, we are prepared to take the chance. (tongue in cheek comment which actually made more sense to me than I thought it would)

I don't like Kenney but the platform so far is just a bunch garbage as far as I'm concerned. Obviously they haven't shared the entire plan so I'll wait and see but so far I don't like what I see, my dislike for Kenney aside. I do vote based on platform I can ignore Kenney because most politicians are terrible, but the pointsbthat have been released so far amount to a whole lot of nothing. I haven't decided what I'll do yet.

Kenney isn't Bill Peters. He's not a question mark. He's Dallas Eakins.