[Rumour] Flames Considering Axing 'Forever a Flame'

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Newy played as many seasons here as Lanny and Vernon. About a half season less than Kipper.

Touche. Bad oversimplification on my part. But, Nieuwendyk wasn't the face of the franchise like Lanny and the way he left also put him down for me. He was pretty much the perfect candidate for the FaF concept though.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

I hate 'Forever a Flame'...at the same time there needs to be tiers of recognition.

Lanny and Iggy are the only two that deserve to be retired IMO
2, 14, 25, 30 and 34 all deserve some sort of recognition, but cheezy banners isn't it. Neither is a full blown retirement. Just put something in the concourse for the lower tier players.

A franchise with one cup shouldn't have 5-6 retired numbers. The optics are Edmonton levels of embarrassing

/thread.

Great take. Jersey retirement should be reserved for the true "face of the franchise" guys.

While I get Vernon may not be on that level, I do think he warrants retirement.

1. Play Minor Hockey for the Calgary Royals
2. Playing AJHL for the Canucks
3. Played WHL for the Wranglers
4. Played Pro for the Calgary Flames and won a cup.


If you were a born and bred Calgarian this would literally be your hockey dream. I'm ok with honouring for what he has done for "Calgary hockey".

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by devo22

about time. Retire 34 while you're at it, thanks.

14 first. It is already a black mark on the organization it isn't already up there. Retiring 34 before 14 is a joke.

[GreenLantern2814]

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

I hate 'Forever a Flame'...at the same time there needs to be tiers of recognition.

Lanny and Iggy are the only two that deserve to be retired IMO
2, 14, 25, 30 and 34 all deserve some sort of recognition, but cheezy banners isn't it. Neither is a full blown retirement. Just put something in the concourse for the lower tier players.

A franchise with one cup shouldn't have 5-6 retired numbers. The optics are Edmonton levels of embarrassing

Why 9? Seriously, how was Lanny more important to the Flames than Theo or MacInnis? He wasn't.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Why 9? Seriously, how was Lanny more important to the Flames than Theo or MacInnis? He wasn't.

Also... Al MacInnis. He's Al goddamn MacInnis. Retire his jersey. You're never going to have a better #2. Nobody's worn it since Commodore anyway. Ditto 14. If you weren't going to give it to Johnny, you're not giving it to anyone. Nobody's worn 14 since. Retire the damn number.

We can't make players choose from a pool of 95 numbers?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Also... Al MacInnis. He's Al goddamn MacInnis. Retire his jersey. You're never going to have a better #2. Nobody's worn it since Commodore anyway. Ditto 14. If you weren't going to give it to Johnny, you're not giving it to anyone. Nobody's worn 14 since. Retire the damn number.

We can't make players choose from a pool of 95 numbers?

I agree both should be retired. I think with Al, the issue was a little bit that he went on to play a big role on another team, including in management, unlike Iginla or Lanny. With Theo, I still have the suspicion that he's either done something off camera that bugged them a lot, or that he is insisting on things for the ceremony that are not what they want to do (like pay him or something). I have zero evidence of this, but Theo has gone from one thing to another so much that I think he's a bit hard up for cash and without the skills to make a bunch.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

I hate 'Forever a Flame'...at the same time there needs to be tiers of recognition.

Lanny and Iggy are the only two that deserve to be retired IMO
2, 14, 25, 30 and 34 all deserve some sort of recognition, but cheezy banners isn't it. Neither is a full blown retirement. Just put something in the concourse for the lower tier players.

A franchise with one cup shouldn't have 5-6 retired numbers. The optics are Edmonton levels of embarrassing

Agreed -- though 'Edmonton level of embarassing' defines Sabres reality these days, it still bugs me they have so many numbers retired when they should really have like 2 or 3.

[CN10]

I think the FaF came from the fact that 2 & 25 moved on to play significant roles for other franchises. The Flames wanted to honor them, but because their careers had significance to other franchises as well I believe they didn't want to be a part of players with numbers retired by multiple teams.

I also think 9 and 30 are up there due just as much to their involvement in the community as for their on-ice achievements with the franchise. Perhaps this is why we are still waiting on 14 & 34 to get their numbers retired.

Anyway, the FaF thing was kind of strange from the get-go. Either you want to retire the number or you don't, and I'm glad the Flames are finally leaning that way as well.

[Jiggy_12]

The whole jersey retirement is a funny concept. It's 100% arbitrary and up to the franchise to decide the parameters, yet fans naturally have their own criteria.

I think for our franchise, with its age and fairly mild success with one championship in 39 years - 3 retired numbers seems about right.

If we go and retire #25, #2, #14, #34 as some have expressed, then we are looking at 7 numbers retired and in all honestly, should our franchise have 7 numbers retired? At some point it would start to feel smug, and a little bit Oiler-ish.

These are all great players but it starts to feel a little bit boastful, to me.

[nik-]

Forever a Flame is a fine idea if it's something like a concourse feature. A wall section with names or plagues with achievements and tenure.

Hanging a number for it was always a dumb idea since that's an actual thing already which has much more meaning. It diminishes the actual retirements when there's a bunch of other numbers hanging up there.

Retire 2, retire 34. Just don't expect Kipper to show up for his number retirement.

[Toonage]

Convert 2 & 25 to regular banners then call it a day.

Until this group wins a cup. Then retire 13, 23, 28, 19, 5...

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree both should be retired. I think with Al, the issue was a little bit that he went on to play a big role on another team, including in management, unlike Iginla or Lanny. With Theo, I still have the suspicion that he's either done something off camera that bugged them a lot, or that he is insisting on things for the ceremony that are not what they want to do (like pay him or something). I have zero evidence of this, but Theo has gone from one thing to another so much that I think he's a bit hard up for cash and without the skills to make a bunch.

Both things seem petty. If MacInnis and Nieuwendyk went on to do other things with other teams, fine. That's life. They still gave you some of their best years and got your organization to the top of the mountain, and they had to do it against the Gretzky Oilers.

Retire their numbers.

Theo, look. Everyone knows what Theo's deal is. Everyone knows the obstacles he's overcome. You take the good with the bad. Say 'we're retiring your number on November 14th, be here by 4:30'. Fleury makes his money as a public speaker now, and from what I've heard in interviews, doesn't seem financially strapped.

Again, for 2 and 14, they're already basically retired. Nobody wears them, nobody would. Unlike 25, which apparently goes to any scrub who needs a shirt. Whatever you want to say about Nieuwendyk, he did get you Iginla. So if you're going to honor him anyway, just take 25 out of circulation.

[Hockey Fan #751]

If the Flames retire 2, 9, 12, 25 and 30, all those players are in the Hockey Hall of Fame except Vernon who I think should be and will be eventually but probably further down the road and Iginla who will be a first ballot when eligible.

That should really be the criteria for jersey retirement moving forward:

(a) Did the player play a significant number of games for the Flames?
(b) Is he or will he be in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

For other players, they should do a Flames Hall of Fame like the Jets do. You could put a bunch of players in there like Regehr, Reinhart, Nilsson, etc.

[squiggs96]

I’m not sure a franchise that has won one Cup in its first 45 years needs to have that many retired numbers. Detroit has won 11 Cups in 91 seasons and only has 7 retired numbers. New Jersey only has 5 retired numbers. The Penguins have two retired numbers. One is Lemieux and the other, Briere, was killed in a car crash after playing one season.

[JBR]

Officially retire 2, 25 and 34.

Add 14 to Forever a Flame. BURN!!

[Flash Walken]

Forever A Flame taking a 'step back' from any affiliation with the organization whatsoever.

[Huntsy]

I agree 2 and 25 first for sure. Then 34 and 14. That would be 7 total. Make is so numbers may be worn at some point. There are a few others but these 5 additions are no brainers..

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

I hate 'Forever a Flame'...at the same time there needs to be tiers of recognition.

Lanny and Iggy are the only two that deserve to be retired IMO
2, 14, 25, 30 and 34 all deserve some sort of recognition, but cheezy banners isn't it. Neither is a full blown retirement. Just put something in the concourse for the lower tier players.

A franchise with one cup shouldn't have 5-6 retired numbers. The optics are Edmonton levels of embarrassing

what optics?

Except for Al Hamilton, Edmonton has only retired numbers of players who are in the Hockey Hall of Fame. so the Edmonton comparison isn't really valid in this case.

[David Struch]

Imagine having Mike Vernon come out to give the speech and banner raising for Al MacInnis... then Lanny McDonald doing the same for fellow captain Joe Nieuwendyk... and for the Grand finale Jarome Iginla giving the accolades to Theo Fleury!

Raise all three new banners together.

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