[Trade] Mark Stone (8yrs, $9.5mil AAV) to Vegas for Erik Brannstrom, Lindberg, 2020 2nd

[Flamenspiel]

Yea, with the way the Flames are playing now, our first pick could be a 17 or 18th overall. Someone mentioned Duchene the other day, he has 1 goal in 7 games and Columbus has 4 wins in their last 10 games. Is it possible that they could fire the GM?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would be horrified if the Flames gave him that contract. He's a good player right now but I won't be surprised if his numbers tail off big time in his early 30's.

What did you expect him to sign for?

Everybody was hoping for a Stone trade and sign.

I don’t think there was any reasonable chance he was going to forgo a soon to be UFA for a bargain price.




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[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by ah123

The last three or four years of that contract might hurt, especially if Stone cannot keep up his awesome play as he gets older

Stone is 26. The deal will expire when he's 34. Lots of elite players are still elite if not borderline elite at that age.

This is sort of why I hope the Flames go shorter on the Tkachuk extension. I don't want to be negotiating an 8-year extension with 28 year old Matthew Tkachuk. That is going to be a high mileage player.

I don't mind giving more term to a guy who hasn't turned 27. What sinks teams is when these star players stop being stars, and the longer you extend guys into their 30s, the riskier it becomes.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Stone is 26. The deal will expire when he's 34. Lots of elite players are still elite if not borderline elite at that age.

This is sort of why I hope the Flames go shorter on the Tkachuk extension. I don't want to be negotiating an 8-year extension with 28 year old Matthew Tkachuk. That is going to be a high mileage player.

I don't mind giving more term to a guy who hasn't turned 27. What sinks teams is when these star players stop being stars, and the longer you extend guys into their 30s, the riskier it becomes.

But Mark Stone isn't Elite. Jarome Iginla was Elite.

[memphusk]

And if this is how the league is running you pay guys right out of entry and then trade them or run their contracts out by the time they're 30.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by memphusk

But Mark Stone isn't Elite. Jarome Iginla was Elite.

Of course Mark Stone is elite. He puts up 60 points every year with outstanding underlying possession numbers and great defence. And he's 26. We're not exactly dealing with Andrew Ladd here.

Originally Posted by memphusk

And if this is how the league is running you pay guys right out of entry and then trade them or run their contracts out by the time they're 30.

This should probably be the case for a great many players.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Of course Mark Stone is elite. He puts up 60 points every year with outstanding underlying possession numbers and great defence. And he's 26. We're not exactly dealing with Andrew Ladd here.



This should probably be the case for a great many players.

Not sure I would call 60 points elite...especially for that kinda money


Mony has 72 already, makes way less, and is questioned by flames fans daily

[Reggie Dunlop]

Sometimes the best deals are the deals you don't make. Ultimately the ask was too rich for Treliving.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

What did you expect him to sign for?

Everybody was hoping for a Stone trade and sign.

I don’t think there was any reasonable chance he was going to forgo a soon to be UFA for a bargain price.




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Not everyone. I didn't want to pay the trade price nor the contract.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Not sure I would call 60 points elite...especially for that kinda money


Mony has 72 already, makes way less, and is questioned by flames fans daily

Stone puts up 60 every year and the best centre he's ever had was Matt Duchene for 14 months. Otherwise, it's Kyle Turris, Zibanajead, and nothing else.

Bergeron hasn't scored 70 since the Bush administration. Look at Marchand's numbers next to Stone's, look at Wheeler's, look at what Hossa did when he went to Chicago.

There's more to it than points. And he puts up a damn solid baseline. For a team that doesn't have any star players outside of Fleury, and only a handful of guys signed past three years, this was a no-brainer deal for a guy that doesn't miss games and has no major injuries in his career.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

What did you expect him to sign for?

Everybody was hoping for a Stone trade and sign.

I don’t think there was any reasonable chance he was going to forgo a soon to be UFA for a bargain price.




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Lots of people were not...it was a pretty hot and even debate on here the night before the deadline. Sure everyone wants the player but the cap space and assets are something to think about. By all accounts the price he would have signed for in Calgary was a little higher.

on a side note Vegas doesn't even have to give Seattle a player in the expansion draft even though they are deeper than most of the league...FACK

[CGY12]

Stone was a solid pass by BT at that term and money. He is a good player but players like him tend to start to decline sooner rather than later, he's not exactly known as great skater.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Stone puts up 60 every year and the best centre he's ever had was Matt Duchene for 14 months. Otherwise, it's Kyle Turris, Zibanajead, and nothing else.

Bergeron hasn't scored 70 since the Bush administration. Look at Marchand's numbers next to Stone's, look at Wheeler's, look at what Hossa did when he went to Chicago.

There's more to it than points. And he puts up a damn solid baseline. For a team that doesn't have any star players outside of Fleury, and only a handful of guys signed past three years, this was a no-brainer deal for a guy that doesn't miss games and has no major injuries in his career.

All guys with lower cap hits...

I think Stone is a very good player...not quite elite

I also think the cap hit is high versus the Value

[powderjunkie]

I guess the league's stern warning about lockout protection in contracts didn't apply to Vegas?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I guess the league's stern warning about lockout protection in contracts didn't apply to Vegas?

does anything?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dino7c

All guys with lower cap hits...

I think Stone is a very good player...not quite elite

I also think the cap hit is high versus the Value

Different economic realities as well. And I'd rather pay 26 year old Mark Stone for eight years @ $9.5 vs 33 year old Wheeler $8.5 x 5. The real world difference is academic in terms of dollars; it's an extra AHL player.

I say look at Marchand/Wheeler because they both had their career best seasons after age 28. There is a compelling argument to be made that Mark Stone's best hockey is ahead of him. The best player Stone ever played with was Erik Karlsson, but defensemen simply do not elevate forwards the way a centre can. Stastny is immediately the best centre Stone has seen in his life.

It's a good gamble (lol) on Vegas' part.

[Coach]

I wouldn’t call Statsny as the best centre Stone has ever had as a slam dunk. Duchene and Turris are arguably as good or better.

[David Struch]

On one hand it's great to know Treliving is chasing the big fish but on the other hand, handing out a contract that resembles anything close to what Stone got is worrisome.

[Flash Walken]

I flat out do not believe Burke on this one.

Valimaki + Andersson is double the value of the Las Vegas package.

You're talking about 2x15-22 minute a night NHL defenders plus a 1st.

I also don't believe the salary ask. Calgary and Edmonton are still the best municipalities in the league for a Canadian resident to earn max income.

It depends on a lot of factors but stone is realistically looking at between 500k-1 million in tax savings over the entire life of the contract, but he may actually take home less.

If he makes Vegas his residence he will be on the hook for Canadian and American taxes, and will have to pay income taxes and jock taxes every time he plays in a us state or city that has them. California, illinois, etc.

I've talked with accountants and business managers here over the years that have explained this to me in the same way.

A business manager told me last year that Calgary was just as competitive a tax jurisdiction as tampa depending on where you made your residency and the structure of the deal in terms of salary vs bonuses.

Burke is blowing hot air.

[Badgers Nose]

Burke should follow his own advice to Edmonton. Stop talking about Flames close calls, the extra detail just leads to questions when the story doesn't add up.