If you were allowed to carry a concealed gun, would you?

[GoinAllTheWay]

I post frequently on another board, completley unrelated to hockey. Gaming forum actualy but it also has an off topic type forum.

The subject of guns and gun control comes up rather frequently. Many people in this forum live in the US, some of them living in states where concealed firearms are legal. The "pro gun" people give examples like the states that they live in (the ones with the legal concealed firearms) experience far fewer gun crimes than those with tight gun control. They also go on to say that gun control only effects the lawful and I am in total agreement with them. However, an enviroment that allows concealed guns just strikes as a situation that would spark a private arms race.

The thread that got me thinking of the issue was entitled "10 Good reasons to ban guns" and is as follows:

1.) Guns are used in self-defense over 2 million times a year. However, this makes the attempted crime a "non-event," which necessarily complicates the Police investigation. Without civilian ownership of guns, these Police investigations would not have been compromised. Civilians should leave crime prevention to the Police, who are properly equipped to investigate following the crime's completion.

2.) Some .004 percentage (4/1000 of 1%) of guns are used in crime each year. This is way too high. All guns should be banned

3.) Guns are unnecessary. In 98% of civilian gun defenses, no shot is fired. If you are not going to fire a shot, you clearly don't need a gun. This proves that the guns are unnecessary. Banning guns will prevent these unnecessary defenses.

4.) Guns cause criminal migration. In tough gun-law Washington, D.C., violent crime rates are very high. This high crime rate is caused by the migration of criminals from gun havens like Virginia. This migration is caused by the criminal's cowardly avoidance of armed householders and concealed-carry civilians. This criminal migration is detrimental to helpless unarmed citizens in no-gun areas and must be stopped. Guns should be banned everywhere.

5.) Most gun crimes are committed by inner city gangs and drug dealers. These relatively small and geographically restricted groups consistently commit the majority of gun crimes, which usually peak as turf wars erupt over Drug War changes. The best way to prevent this is by denying guns to all law abiding people everywhere.

6.) No woman needs to protect herself from rape, assault or murder. The Police will protect them by investigating the crime after the fact. Remember, Police paperwork is all the protection anyone really needs.

7.) Gun owners are disrespectful of authority. Good citizens should completely rely on the authorities. A failure to do so is an invariable sign of improper and overly independent attitudes. Failure to completely and absolutely trust and depend on the authorities is excessive democracy and sends a bad message to children.

8.) Gun owners engaging in self-defense are taking the law into their own hands. This is wrong. Only the Police and Criminals have the right to take the law into their own hands. It should be kept out of the hands of citizens.

9.) Children and young people should remain ignorant about guns. Real guns and real gun knowledge dissipate the fantasies created by violent video games and TV. Ignorance, once lost, can never be restored and needs to be protected.

10.)Guns reduce people's reliance on the Police and Government. This fosters a mistaken belief in "rights". No person has the right to question authority. No person should be less than 100% dependent on authority. This is fundamental to social order. Banning guns will help to establish the Order the authorities want. This is good.

Now there is obiously sarcasm in this list but it gets me to thining. Why do people feel compelled to carry a gun to feel safe? Furthermore, why do guns have that air about them? I mean, you could just as easily kill someone with a steak knife as you could with a gun. Yet if you were to put a steak knife down on a kitchen table beside a 9mm of, peoples eyes would be far more drawn to the gun then the steak knife. Why is that? Is it because you can kill someone from a distance as opposed to being right in their face? Not sure as if you were to put a bow or blow gun down on the table in place of the knife, people would still view the gun as the much larger threat. Why is that? What is it about guns that get people so worked up?

So in conclusion, if you could, would you? Why or why not?

[habernac]

IMO, anyone who needs a gun to feel safe needs to either move or stop hanging out in crappy neighbourhoods. I've had this arguement on mountain bike message boards as well. Usually they say it's for defense against animals. It's laughable that they think their Glok is going to protect them from grizzly bears or mountain lions. If your goal is to **** off the grizzly, then you're doing the right thing. And a mountain lion is going to be all over you before you can even think about unholstering that gun.

[kermitology]

There is no purpose for anyone in an urban environment to carry a gun.

I don't think I'll ever even shoot one if I have the choice.

[Agamemnon]

I think as soon as you start carrying a gun the likelihood of you being killed by a gun probably increases exponentially. If you pull out your gun to defend yourself, that may prompt whoever is assaulting you to pull out their gun and kill you. If you don't have a gun, you're not a lethal threat, meaning criminals may be more inclined not to 'remove the threat' by killing you. Just off the top of my head though...

[burn_baby_burn]

I grew up around guns. But in urban Alberta, I don't think you need to carry a concealed weapon to feel save. But my cousin's husband in Kansas City has loaded hand guns all over the place in their house. They even have a drill in the event that an intruder enters the house. Basically my cousin is supposed to grab the baby, hide in the corner of the bed room and phone the police to tell them that her husband just shot an intruder.

[Mike Oxlong]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Furthermore, why do guns have that air about them? I mean, you could just as easily kill someone with a steak knife as you could with a gun. Yet if you were to put a steak knife down on a kitchen table beside a 9mm of, peoples eyes would be far more drawn to the gun then the steak knife. Why is that? Is it because you can kill someone from a distance as opposed to being right in their face?

I'll give you 2 steak knives against my gun anyday. I am quite confident I will come out on top.

Guns are dangerous as hell. How many accidental deaths are there every year from guns kept in homes? Probably a hell of a lot more than accidental deaths from knives.

I am glad we live in a society that doesn't allow us to carry concealed weapons. I think it does lead to an "arms" race. If some mentally unbalanced guy pulls one on me because I cut him off on the Deerfoot or something I want to be able to defend myself. I don't think throwing a steak knife at him is going to accomplish that.

I prefer that they are for the most part outlawed. Some people will get their hands on them (gang members etc..) but hopefully they use them on each other and not the general public.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Totally agree. Being a completely domesticated family man, I just don't see a situation where I would need one ever. The people I associate with, the business I do, the area I live in, and the places I go just don't raise a need. If by chance I am killed in a random home invasion/mugging/driveby/****happens, then my time was simply up, and it is no different than a car accident/hockey puck to head/lightning/more****happens kind of situation.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I grew up around guns. But in urban Alberta, I don't think you need to carry a concealed weapon to feel save. But my cousin's husband in Kansas City has loaded hand guns all over the place in their house. They even have a drill in the event that an intruder enters the house. Basically my cousin is supposed to grab the baby, hide in the corner of the bed room and phone the police to tell them that her husband just shot an intruder.

Baby, plus loaded handguns all over the house. Sounds like a good combination to me. Wait until that baby turns into a curious 4 year old. Thats a recipe for disaster right there...

[Burninator]

People use guns for self defense against other people who have guns. It's a vicious circle. There are other means of self defense that are non-lethal and very effective. Things like mace, pepper spray and tazers. Pistols are not necessary. So no, I would never carry a gun as self defense.

[worth]

I would carry a concealed weapon if it was legal in Canada.

Canadians can actually take the US CCW course and legally carry a concealed weapon in 30 states if you were to ever go there. There are even classes offered in Calgary for this. Essentially, the argument is, a foreign government will trust us to carry, however our own will not.

The thing is, people who carry a concealed weapon are responsible gun owners. How do I know this? Well, they have to take a course, pay registration fees and do a load of paperwork. This is why gun control don't work.

Violent crime will not cease if you try to register guns. Law abiding citizens will be handcuffed by the laws without having done a thing. And this is what we have in Canada.

Really, this is not about if you can see a need for a weapon or not. I'm sure there are tons of people in the states who carry and have never used it. That isn't the point. The point is some people feel as if it is their right (which essentially it is through British Common Law) to own a weapon leagally.

Really, the place to talk about this is:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/

beacuse they have covered this topic extensivley and have gone through the many misconceptions of gun ownership. Far better than I could ever explain.

Also, people talking about gun safety: to have a gun in your house legally in Canada it has to have a trigger lock on it and I believe stowed away in it's case or safe. 99% of responsible owners do this.

This is the same kind of thing as drinking and driving. Because some people get liquored up and kill others, are you going to ban all cars? Of course not.

We are punishing law abiding citizens because criminals use the same tools. It doens't make sense.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

Baby, plus loaded handguns all over the house. Sounds like a good combination to me. Wait until that baby turns into a curious 4 year old. Thats a recipe for disaster right there...

He doesn't have them out on the coffee table or anything. But they are accesable, in the event of an intruder. He isn't some red neck either. He is a sales rep for a phamacutical company and lives in a decent part of town, Leawood in Overland Park.

[Crazy Flamer]

If I had the opportunity to carry a gun I don't think I would. I would probably end up shotting myself.

I also have a five year old son. And while I wouldn't want him finding a gun in my house, I hope to one day teach him how to use one and all the ramifications of using it incorrectly. I thinks its better to educate kids about guns than it is to never talk about them and hope your kids never come across them.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by worth

bang bang

The question wasn't should we be able to, it was would you if you could.

I agree that Canadians should be able to defend themselves, and I defend myself by ensuring I am not in a situation where I would need a handgun. They would never be permitted in my home, ever.

[SeeGeeWhy]

I think that most people who carry any sort of concealed weapon are not trained to use it properly (gun, knife, whatever), so it's sort of pointless to do so in the first place. Maybe I am wrong.

I'd never carry a gun because I don't need to. The only time I'd ever shoot one, it would be a rifle, and it would be while hunting. Even then, I'd rather try to do it with a bow and arrow before I tried rifle hunting (seems cooler to take down a huge animal with nothing more than a "stick and a string")...

I find it funny that the roots of the 'right to bear arms' was, in my understanding, to allow people to protect themselves from seizure of personal property or liberty from a government gone wild. Nowadays, I figure people can do a pretty effective job of eliminating a government in the US just by voting... look how well that is working out, though.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by worth

I
Canadians can actually take the US CCW course and legally carry a concealed weapon in 30 states if you were to ever go there. There are even classes offered in Calgary for this. Essentially, the argument is, a foreign government will trust us to carry, however our own will not.

Hmmm, I respectfully disagree. I just don't see a need for concealed weapons; you talk about safety. Well it could actually work in a contrary manner to that...consider that it could make someone a lot "braver" than they would have been without one, leading to injury, potential death, etc.

As well, cars are not developed with the aim of killing someone/something or injurying it. They are developed with the idea of transportation. Also, on a "sillier level", it is a lot harder to conceal a car than it is a weapon.

[worth]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

The question wasn't should we be able to, it was would you if you could.

I agree that Canadians should be able to defend themselves, and I defend myself by ensuring I am not in a situation where I would need a handgun. They would never be permitted in my home, ever.

I answered that and then added why it should.

I think that most people who carry any sort of concealed weapon are not trained to use it properly (gun, knife, whatever), so it's sort of pointless to do so in the first place. Maybe I am wrong.

To legally acquire a handgun you have to take a Non Restricted and Restricted Posession and Acquisition License test. Once that is finished you would have to purchase a weapon which would be registered with the government and then finally hypothetically you would get a concealed weapons permit which is another course.

So if you could carry legally and did so, you'd be trained to do so.

[REDVAN]

I would carry a gun if i was allowed to.

For every question about why should I, there is an answer of why not? Nothing wrong with carrying a gun.

[worth]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Hmmm, while I respectfully disagree. I just don't see a need for concealed weapons; you talk about safety. Well it could actually work in a contrary manner to that...consider that it could make someone a lot "braver" than they would have been without one, leading to injury, potential death, etc.

As well, cars are not developed with the aim of killing someone/something or injurying it. They are developed with the idea of transportation. Also, on a "sillier level", it is a lot harder to conceal a car than it is a weapon.

The laws still work in the same way if you carry or not in the states. You have to be in danger in order to defend yourself. I think that most responsible gun owners are not animals and go looking for people to kill, but rather see it is a responsibility for everyone to protect themselves.

Guns aren't just used for killing either. Many people enjoy target shooting, however it is becoming extremly hard to do so in this country. There are people that collect guns like any other collection and there are those that go every weekend to the range because they enjoy it.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by worth

Guns aren't just used for killing either. Many people enjoy target shooting, however it is becoming extremly hard to do so in this country. There are people that collect guns like any other collection and there are those that go every weekend to the range because they enjoy it.

Yah, I know, I grew up in rural Alberta...trust me, I know.

But anyways, I guess for the purpose of this thread, my answer is obviously: no. I would not carry one, nor would I allow any into my house.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

5.) Most gun crimes are committed by inner city gangs and drug dealers. These relatively small and geographically restricted groups consistently commit the majority of gun crimes, which usually peak as turf wars erupt over Drug War changes. The best way to prevent this is by denying guns to all law abiding people everywhere.

I was watching a program on the BBC a while back and they stated that most GSDs in the USA were a cause of domestic violence. This brings up the point that although the intention of allowing non-criminal civilians to be armed is to give the civilians a means to protect themselves, it in fact leads to more harm amoung them. People will not always use what they are given for its intended purpose. A husband and wife can engage in a bitter fight and in the heat of the moment one of them might see the gun and end up busting a few caps. To you and me this may not seem logical as we know the potential danger of using a gun, but that's not the case in the States. Being around guns for extended periods of time, or growing up in a house that has them will lead to an increased comfort level. Take the example of the family in KC, although the wife who is from Canada might never think to use the gun in a domestic dispute the two American males, one who is comfortable enough to have multiple firearms in his house and the other who will have grown up with the acceptance of having firearms in his house, might, in a fit of rage, end up firing one of the firearms.

I wouldn't carry a concealed gun if I was allowed to.