Ramo was better and more consistent than Hiller. Think he gets underrated here. Only Kiprusoff has a higher career save-percentage as a Flame than Ramo, among goalies with 50+ GP.
You’re in Klimchuk territory with Ramo here Scorp. He’s not even in the conversation.
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Mike Vernon had a very very high level of success in some very distinct era's in the NHL. He played very well in the high flying 80's when goal scoring was at it's peak and won a Cup in 89 with Calgary.
He than had a high level of success in the 90's with the beginning of the 90's being a more up tempo, high scoring style of hockey and than in the later part of the 90's when it was more defensive minded. He played lights out in 1997 and won the cup with Detroit and Conn Smythe as the playoff MVP on a team that was so stacked, it's not even possible in today's NHL.
He played in 3 different decades of hockey and had success. He deserves to be in HHOF without question and the numbers and the accomplishment's prove it as well.
I am a little shocked with some of the sentiment with regards to him, the guy's resume speaks for it's self without question!
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Kidd was mediocre at his best and could win some games, but pretty much the opposite of a clutch performer. Turek is in the same category with less tenure.
I had a soft spot for Brathwaite, but he really only had a season or two of impact.
Lots and lots of stopgaps.
Hell, I think that I might be the 10th best goalie in Flames' history. It's an ugly list.
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As a flame he played on the Canada Cup team, which was the only Best on Best tourney in the world at the time. There was no World Cup or Olympics where the NHL shut down to allow the best to play.
He was also a Vezina finalist in 1984 or 1985.
So in my mind the questions to ask to build a case over Lemelin are:
Where did ____ finish in Vezina voting while a Flame?
Was ______ a candidate for the Olympic or World cup team as a Flame?
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If you include the Atlanta years, Bouchard can be considered, but if we're only looking at the team in Calgary, he did nothing here. He was a whiny baby who forced Fletcher to trade him.
Bouchard played 14 games in Calgary and had an overall record of 4-5-3. Jon Gillies has played 12 NHL games and has a record of 4-5-1. Leland Irving played 13 games for the Flames, with a record of 3-4-4. That's who Bouchard compares to with his play in Calgary.
Reggie is pretty clearly 3rd place. He was nowhere near the level of Kipper or Vernon, but no one else was near his level.
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You’re in Klimchuk territory with Ramo here Scorp. He’s not even in the conversation.
Disagree. He almost has to be, by default. He was an around-league-average goalie for three seasons with the Flames and played the majority of the playoffs in a year where Calgary won a series. Only Ramo, Kiprusoff, Vernon, and Lemelin can say that.
After Kiprusoff, Vernon, and Lemelin, who else would it be?
Bouchard - didn't really consider him because he was mostly an Atlanta guy. If we're taking those achievements into consideration, sure, fine. But he didn't move the needle much in Calgary.
Hiller - one average season and one horrific season in which he was by far the worst goalie in the NHL. Not even close to Ramo.
Brathwaite - posted solid numbers on some brutal teams. I'm inclined to take Ramo over him because of his playoff experience, but Brathwaite's RS numbers are slightly better. They started roughly the same number of games over the same amount of seasons.
Elliott - one year of mediocre and inconsistent goaltending isn't enough to beat Ramo.
Smith - similar to Hiller, although with a slightly better second year. Still, Ramo never had a year that was close to being as bad as Smith's 2018-19.
Turek - maybe if he played every game like the first 12 of 2001-02. As it stands, he wasn't anything special and his numbers were quite poor for the era. Gets points for taking the pay-cut, but it's not enough. Didn't do anything in the playoffs, either, but only because of the guy in front of him -- although, if his time in St. Louis was any indication, he could have contributed to an early exit if he'd played in 2004.
Kidd - backed up Vernon for a year before starting for three years. Was pretty spectacularly bad in the playoffs. Usurped by Tabaracci as the playoff starter in 1996, which says a lot. His regular-season stats were pretty consistently below-average, with the exception of in 1995, a year in which he proceeded to post an .856 in the playoffs.
IMO it goes:
Kiprusoff (576 GP) - the best ever
Vernon (527 GP) - close second
Lemelin (302 GP) - consistent starter for years with playoff success
Ramo (111 GP) - average starter for three years with playoff success
Brathwaite (138 GP) - average starter for three years
Kidd (178 GP) - inconsistent starter with some good years
Turek (152 GP) - inconsistent and overpaid starter for two years
Smith (89 GP) - All-Star to well-below-average in two years
Hiller (78 GP) - above-average starter to historically bad in two years
Elliott (49 GP) - inconsistent starter for a year with no playoff success
Man, it's a really ugly list. At their Flames peak, I wouldn't want anyone after the top-3 as a starter today.
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Last edited by TheScorpion; 03-04-2019 at 06:43 AM.
Seems like Vernon is underrated here. You don't make three Stanley Cup final appearances and win two Stanley Cups on two different teams if you are an average goaltender. He was very good in an era where goaltenders used small equipment and were judged not on how many saves they made but when they made key saves.
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Seems like Vernon is underrated here. You don't make three Stanley Cup final appearances and win two Stanley Cups on two different teams if you are an average goaltender. He was very good in an era where goaltenders used small equipment and were judged not on how many saves they made but when they made key saves.
Not to mention a Conn Smythe in Detroit, and should have had the Conn Smythe in Calgary.
Also worth mentioning his size. He was the same size as Theo and Johnny! His head was barely higher than the crossbar, played with normal (read: not oversized) equipment and was a standup goalie, which is just mind blowing. His reflexes were from another planet!
There was something about Ramo that I just didn't like and I was relieved when they finally decided to not bring him back. Out of the three headed monster he was probably the most reliable but the year before I had more confidence in Hiller.
Seems like Vernon is underrated here. You don't make three Stanley Cup final appearances and win two Stanley Cups on two different teams if you are an average goaltender. He was very good in an era where goaltenders used small equipment and were judged not on how many saves they made but when they made key saves.
+1
Vernon was elite - the '80s were high scoring so it's hard to compare his statistics.
