What drives me crazy is almost opposite. I mean frankly the bottom line is that I completely understand that its show and actor and plot driven. But this is my annoyance.
1) We have a ship of 400 people, like a naval vessel every individual has a specialization. I'm sure that there's a flight deck crew, you know with pilots, yet everyone seems to grab a shuttle on their own, without authorization. Shuttle pilots must really hate the command crew.
2) I've said this multiple times, you have an away mission with the Captain and half of the senior crew on the bridge. So not only if something bad happens do you lose your whole command structure. But the rest of the crew probably want to murder the bridge crew for being elitists who take all of the good assignments
3) You can apparently do everything from the bridge with a touch of the button. Transport people, all communications, all engineering functions, everything. So again, why does a ship like the Discovery or Enterprise need a crew of more then 10 people. I'm guessing that the 390 other crewman's job for the most part is cooking meals for the bridge crew, giving their foot massages and cleaning their sphincters after a good poop.
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What drives me crazy is almost opposite. I mean frankly the bottom line is that I completely understand that its show and actor and plot driven. But this is my annoyance.
1) We have a ship of 400 people, like a naval vessel every individual has a specialization. I'm sure that there's a flight deck crew, you know with pilots, yet everyone seems to grab a shuttle on their own, without authorization. Shuttle pilots must really hate the command crew.
2) I've said this multiple times, you have an away mission with the Captain and half of the senior crew on the bridge. So not only if something bad happens do you lose your whole command structure. But the rest of the crew probably want to murder the bridge crew for being elitists who take all of the good assignments
3) You can apparently do everything from the bridge with a touch of the button. Transport people, all communications, all engineering functions, everything. So again, why does a ship like the Discovery or Enterprise need a crew of more then 10 people. I'm guessing that the 390 other crewman's job for the most part is cooking meals for the bridge crew, giving their foot massages and cleaning their sphincters after a good poop.
I always wonder in these Star Trek shows...even the bridge crew, why are they needed? Future computer instant response and algorithms would command much better than living beings.
Oh there’s a time tsunami that’s going to hit them? Tilley has to tell them to get out of the way? No, in that time frame, the computer would already know, and would have already taken them out of harms way.
I always wonder in these Star Trek shows...even the bridge crew, why are they needed? Future computer instant response and algorithms would command much better than living beings.
the rise of AI and automation in the real world certainly make elements of Star Trek seem anachronistic, but changing it to be a more realistic 200-300 years in the future would alter things to the point where it might as well be a brand new sci-fi series. even Star Wars is a little silly that way with everything being conducted as a WWII analog; hell it even had a droid army go toe to toe with a galactic republic led by space wizards, and even after that they're still willing to throw millions of actual living beings into the meat grinder.
but then at the same time you still have people complaining that USS Discovery is way too advanced looking, and would prefer that it looked like a cheap cardboard set from the 1960's purely for visual continuity with TOS.
the rise of AI and automation in the real world certainly make elements of Star Trek seem anachronistic, but changing it to be a more realistic 200-300 years in the future would alter things to the point where it might as well be a brand new sci-fi series. even Star Wars is a little silly that way with everything being conducted as a WWII analog; hell it even had a droid army go toe to toe with a galactic republic led by space wizards, and even after that they're still willing to throw millions of actual living beings into the meat grinder.
but then at the same time you still have people complaining that USS Discovery is way too advanced looking, and would prefer that it looked like a cheap cardboard set from the 1960's purely for visual continuity with TOS.
Its funny with Star Wars and the Clone Wars, because if you go back and read some of the books, for the most part the citizens of the republic and the Jedi viewed the Clones as no more then battle droids. They didn't really view them as citizens or citizen soldiers of the Republic. So while you can view the Separatists as Nazi's with face less, remorseless soldiers that obey all orders without questions. The Clones were in a lot of ways treated worse by the Republic. They were basically slaves that the Republic was willing to throw away. It was worse for the defective clones. Originally they were liquidated and broken down for spare parts. It was only later that some Jedi pushed for them to be spared and used as basically slave labor.
Sometimes we view the clone wars where you have people like Anakin, Kenobi, Ashoka and even Yoda as treating Clones as living things but you also had other Jedi like Krell etc that treated them as nothing more then flesh based disposable droids.
The thing that people tend to gloss over in the PT is that absolutely Sidious and Grevious and Dooku were the key focus villains. But the Republic which was corrupt and fairly ruthless and in a way anti-democratic were villains in their own right.
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I always wonder in these Star Trek shows...even the bridge crew, why are they needed? Future computer instant response and algorithms would command much better than living beings.
Oh there’s a time tsunami that’s going to hit them? Tilley has to tell them to get out of the way? No, in that time frame, the computer would already know, and would have already taken them out of harms way.
Did you not learn anything from M5??
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The thing that people tend to gloss over in the PT is that absolutely Sidious and Grevious and Dooku were the key focus villains. But the Republic which was corrupt and fairly ruthless and in a way anti-democratic were villains in their own right.
whenever I imagine what you look like in real life I assume it's a pair of glowing yellow eyes under a black hood.
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Really? If they don't absolutely melt peoples minds with so many things happening at once in an episode, they do really strange writing conceptualizations that really hurt you're head.
I was so confused at the start with the NetFlix logo, as they flashed back to the original Star Trek Pilot the Menagerie. Now, the Menagerie was an excellent episode from TOS, and its interesting that they showed the original Nimoy Spoke walking around shouting and having a big smile on his face, and I guess that we aree going to see a less emotionally stable Spock.
Now I'm going to say this. Just because you can as a writer shouldn't mean that you shouldn't. When you get overly reliant on things like time travel and telepathy you tend to eventually frustrate fans because as a writer you become addicted to being able to fix things in ludicrous ways.
So this episode had three different things happening at the same time.
The return to Talus IV and this episode being a sequel/prequel to the Menagerie where Pike suddenly remembers his time on that planet with Vina, but doesn't remember his eventual return as a wheel chair rolling invalid.
The interactions with Spock and finding out that it was likely section 31 that murders those doctors, at the same time we find out that Spock doesn't like Michael because she was a big meany to him and said mean things when she was trying to protect him from Vulcan Extremists, which was actually a nod to the series Enterprise (2 I say 2 fan services in one episode)
The Red Angel. We now know that she's human, sad has advanced tech and showed Spock the end of the galaxy and she's trying to change the time line. (BTW I swear to god if its Michael in that suit, I'm officially done as she will become the greatest Mary Sue in history.
Oh and the whole Tyler/Paul/Stammets things where Paul isn't himself, isn't interested in returning to his old life and is or isn't angry at being murdered.
Oh and the section 31 story line where they villanously try to kidnap Spock and Burnham, because they want Spock's memories of the future because they're evil, meanwhile George is trying to over throw her Captain while sipping coffee and telling people how busy she is (oh ha ha ha).
There's way too much happening in any one episode to keep track of and because of this the over arching stories are just becoming incoherent.
Oh and I forgot that the Cyborg has been assimilated by the Probe
Spoiler!
take this for what it is, but I'm betting that this series has now decided to re-imagine the Borg
Look Anson Mount is great in the role of Pike, and its almost sad that they had to show us Jeffrey Hunters wooden Pike. But he's great.
On the other hand outside of Stamets, Saru and Pike the rest of the actors on this show are slowly becoming pretty uninteresting because of content burnout.
So some spare thoughts
So with Vina in the original series episode explains that the Talosians put her back together without knowing what Human's were supposed to look like. Tonight she basically said when she showed her form that this was what she looked like after the crash. What a terrible shift from a really interesting character and alien developing piece of writing in the original series to something that really made the Talosian's look like a cookie cutter plot device.
Seriously they're going to write a sequel/prequel of the Menagerie and in the original the Talosians feel pain when they are confronted with strong emotions, they made it a huge thing in the original series. Now they almost slurp up those negative emotions like junkies. Come on man, just stop.
So was Spock the family dog as a child Because throughout that whole sequence where Michael was calling him mean names I had that image of someone running away and saying mean angry things to the family dog so it wouldn't follow.
The whole, you were a big meany so I became logical. Come on man.
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Maybe you should just stop watching? You clearly hate it and the weekly meandering bitch-fest is a bit tiresome.
I suppose equally, ignore the comment if you find it tiresome.
I enjoy reading positive and negative feedback on weekly episodes. It's the primary purpose of actually reading a thread. If it's a weekly lovefest, forums go the way of the dodo bird.
I enjoyed this episode far greater than the previous few weeks. Down to three main plot points instead of 20. It's far from ideal but certainly maintained interest even if Star Trek canon was sort of turfed, not that I really care. I just want an enjoyable and well written storyline & plot.
Red Angel being Michael seems very probable.
I found it actually funny with the big build up of what Michael did to Spock as a child. That big meanie - damaged for life
I think it’s fine to a point, when it starts getting to that level of Walking Dead criticism where people just chime in to just to say the show sucks and they aren’t watching anymore, or similarly lame hot takes like that, it wears really thin.
Really? If they don't absolutely melt peoples minds with so many things happening at once in an episode, they do really strange writing conceptualizations that really hurt you're head.
I was so confused at the start with the NetFlix logo, as they flashed back to the original Star Trek Pilot the Menagerie. Now, the Menagerie was an excellent episode from TOS, and its interesting that they showed the original Nimoy Spoke walking around shouting and having a big smile on his face, and I guess that we aree going to see a less emotionally stable Spock.
Now I'm going to say this. Just because you can as a writer shouldn't mean that you shouldn't. When you get overly reliant on things like time travel and telepathy you tend to eventually frustrate fans because as a writer you become addicted to being able to fix things in ludicrous ways.
So this episode had three different things happening at the same time.
The return to Talus IV and this episode being a sequel/prequel to the Menagerie where Pike suddenly remembers his time on that planet with Vina, but doesn't remember his eventual return as a wheel chair rolling invalid.
The interactions with Spock and finding out that it was likely section 31 that murders those doctors, at the same time we find out that Spock doesn't like Michael because she was a big meany to him and said mean things when she was trying to protect him from Vulcan Extremists, which was actually a nod to the series Enterprise (2 I say 2 fan services in one episode)
The Red Angel. We now know that she's human, sad has advanced tech and showed Spock the end of the galaxy and she's trying to change the time line. (BTW I swear to god if its Michael in that suit, I'm officially done as she will become the greatest Mary Sue in history.
Oh and the whole Tyler/Paul/Stammets things where Paul isn't himself, isn't interested in returning to his old life and is or isn't angry at being murdered.
Oh and the section 31 story line where they villanously try to kidnap Spock and Burnham, because they want Spock's memories of the future because they're evil, meanwhile George is trying to over throw her Captain while sipping coffee and telling people how busy she is (oh ha ha ha).
There's way too much happening in any one episode to keep track of and because of this the over arching stories are just becoming incoherent.
Oh and I forgot that the Cyborg has been assimilated by the Probe
Spoiler!
take this for what it is, but I'm betting that this series has now decided to re-imagine the Borg
Look Anson Mount is great in the role of Pike, and its almost sad that they had to show us Jeffrey Hunters wooden Pike. But he's great.
On the other hand outside of Stamets, Saru and Pike the rest of the actors on this show are slowly becoming pretty uninteresting because of content burnout.
So some spare thoughts
So with Vina in the original series episode explains that the Talosians put her back together without knowing what Human's were supposed to look like. Tonight she basically said when she showed her form that this was what she looked like after the crash. What a terrible shift from a really interesting character and alien developing piece of writing in the original series to something that really made the Talosian's look like a cookie cutter plot device.
Seriously they're going to write a sequel/prequel of the Menagerie and in the original the Talosians feel pain when they are confronted with strong emotions, they made it a huge thing in the original series. Now they almost slurp up those negative emotions like junkies. Come on man, just stop.
So was Spock the family dog as a child Because throughout that whole sequence where Michael was calling him mean names I had that image of someone running away and saying mean angry things to the family dog so it wouldn't follow.
The whole, you were a big meany so I became logical. Come on man.
The events of the episode happen years after “The Cage”. “The Menagerie” occurs years after this episode.
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[SPOILER]
Oh and I forgot that the Cyborg has been assimilated by the Probe
Spoiler!
take this for what it is, but I'm betting that this series has now decided to re-imagine the Borg
I have no idea where the book series' stands in the canon--I'm just going to assume they don't stand anywhere anymore--but I hope we are done with them after David Mack's Destiny trilogy.
Shelve them. For 25 years. In all mediums
Them=
Spoiler!
The Borg. The Destiny triology explained their origins, the federation/alpha quadrant races essentially defeated them after they sent thousands of ships to the alpha quadrant. I don't remember exactly, it's been 10, 15 years since i read it. But that's the gist if you have no idea what i am talking about. Pretty good series as I recall. It's probably not necessary to spoiler code all this.
I think it’s fine to a point, when it starts getting to that level of Walking Dead criticism where people just chime in to just to say the show sucks and they aren’t watching anymore, or similarly lame hot takes like that, it wears really thin.
look on the bright side, at least he didn't include the normally obligatory "watch The Orville instead because it's superior in every way and true to the original vision of Star Trek". I don't care one lick if it's even true, there's a perfectly good separate thread for Orville worship.
what I want is clarification on the ongoing referral to Michael Burnham as a Mary Sue. first of all I can't stand that goddamn term, mostly because nobody knew it or used it at all until The Force Awakens, and now suddenly you can't discuss any fiction without seeing it pop up. as far as I know, Mary Sue means character (of any gender) that excels at everything they do, without justification.
Assuming Burnham was born with a gifted intellect to begin with (like Stamets, LaForge, Crusher or any other number of technobabble spewing officers), then it should be completely believable that her Vulcan upbringing maximized her analytic/problem solving potential. and all the combat skills are explained by her rigorous training in Vulcan karate. and yet she's still quite stunted emotionally and it shows in many of her decisions so far.
so what exactly am I missing? why is it impossible to believe that her intellect and physical prowess are at a level above most of her shipmates? Stamets and Tilly are still better than her at their respective specialties, while Pike and Saru are still better leaders. she's not really the one woman starfleet that she's being made out as.
See that was a fantastic really well done written and acted episode.
Why? . . . because it was focused
Why? . . . because characters that have been ignored or used like furniture got to tell a story
why? . . . .because frankly the chemistry between Pike and Admiral Cornwell is fracking fantastic
Spoiler!
Realistically the premise of the episode was two fold, all folded nicely into one.
The plot of section 31 to not only capture Spock and drain his brain, and frame him for murder was revealed not to be a plot by section 31, but by Control, Star Fleets command and control system. At some point it has gained sentience and its hinted that its the very thing that destroys all life in the galaxy.
In order to gain sentience its after the sphere data on AI, and it basically draws the Discovery into a trap at section 31 headquarters.
We also know that Airiam has been corrupted by this AI. The shame of it is, they revealed what felt like a really great backstory for Airiam who was a normal pretty happily married girl who crashed the day after her wedding and was rebuilt as an augmented cyborg. I would have loved to see them develop her character more so that we could have had more empathy for her character.
Anyways, she's been corrupted and her mission is to get to control to deliver all of the sphere's AI data at Section 31 headquarters and Michael is forced to kill her. Like I said this was a good emotional scene, but could have been incredible if they had developed her as a character.
We also got a lot more from Detmer which was nice to see. Again, one of my grudge points was she was too easy in forgiving Michael which seemed like lazy writing all along.
We also saw Spock struggling to figure out why the Red Angel choose him and we saw his emotional side during a chess game with Michael.
Again the chemistry between Mount and Jayne Brooks and I chuckled when Pike asked her what kind of shyteshow she was getting them into.
Overall this season there have been two really good episodes, and I'm convinced that they worked because they didn't try to jam a lot of non intersecting stories into one episode instead we got actually character and plot development that worked.
This is really what I've been wanting to see from the start of the show.
Even Tilly who annoys me made sense in this episode and it was touching to see her send Airiam the memory of her walk on the beech before she died, it made me see Tilly as more then the fidgity annoying girl that they've had her playing.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
See that was a fantastic really well done written and acted episode.
Why? . . . because it was focused
Why? . . . because characters that have been ignored or used like furniture got to tell a story
why? . . . .because frankly the chemistry between Pike and Admiral Cornwell is fracking fantastic
Spoiler!
Realistically the premise of the episode was two fold, all folded nicely into one.
The plot of section 31 to not only capture Spock and drain his brain, and frame him for murder was revealed not to be a plot by section 31, but by Control, Star Fleets command and control system. At some point it has gained sentience and its hinted that its the very thing that destroys all life in the galaxy.
In order to gain sentience its after the sphere data on AI, and it basically draws the Discovery into a trap at section 31 headquarters.
We also know that Airiam has been corrupted by this AI. The shame of it is, they revealed what felt like a really great backstory for Airiam who was a normal pretty happily married girl who crashed the day after her wedding and was rebuilt as an augmented cyborg. I would have loved to see them develop her character more so that we could have had more empathy for her character.
Anyways, she's been corrupted and her mission is to get to control to deliver all of the sphere's AI data at Section 31 headquarters and Michael is forced to kill her. Like I said this was a good emotional scene, but could have been incredible if they had developed her as a character.
We also got a lot more from Detmer which was nice to see. Again, one of my grudge points was she was too easy in forgiving Michael which seemed like lazy writing all along.
We also saw Spock struggling to figure out why the Red Angel choose him and we saw his emotional side during a chess game with Michael.
Again the chemistry between Mount and Jayne Brooks and I chuckled when Pike asked her what kind of shyteshow she was getting them into.
Overall this season there have been two really good episodes, and I'm convinced that they worked because they didn't try to jam a lot of non intersecting stories into one episode instead we got actually character and plot development that worked.
This is really what I've been wanting to see from the start of the show.
Even Tilly who annoys me made sense in this episode and it was touching to see her send Airiam the memory of her walk on the beech before she died, it made me see Tilly as more then the fidgity annoying girl that they've had her playing.
I'm willing to bet it isn't a coincidence the only episodes you like are directed by Frakes.
