Mike Smith's... woes? He blows? Eating crows? Who knows! (Also David Rittich exists!)

[Kswiss]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Flames have not played 70 games, but I agree with your point, it would be negligible.

Not GS. Games Played.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Table 5

It's a pretty great gameplan, because everyone knows he's too pig-headed to change his ways. Smith may be able to handle the puck, be he's extremely arrogant about it...he'll take needless risks and let's the opposing players get way too close before he takes action. I wish they would've pulled him right after that goal to embarrass him.

We know exactly where this is going if he starts in Round 1.

That is an interesting quote if that is an opposing teams view, "he is either really good or really bad"

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Flames have not played 70 games, but I agree with your point, it would be negligible.

Those are their stats on NHL.com, I didn’t make them up.
I’m assuming they count split games.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Those are their stats on NHL.com, I didn’t make them up.
I’m assuming they count split games.

Best to do it as a per-60 stat.

When Rittich is in net, the Flames have given up 29.41 shots per 60 minutes.

When Smith is in net, it's 27.80.

Even if we could attribute a reduction of 1.5 shots per game to Smith's stickhandling relative to Rittich's, it's not worth it. Not when he's that mentally weak.

[Ulrith]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Flames have not played 70 games, but I agree with your point, it would be negligible.

Goalies get pulled from time to time.


Not often enough in Smith's case.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Best to do it as a per-60 stat.

When Rittich is in net, the Flames have given up 29.41 shots per 60 minutes.

When Smith is in net, it's 27.80.

Even if we could attribute a reduction of 1.5 shots per game to Smith's stickhandling relative to Rittich's, it's not worth it. Not when he's that mentally weak.

What about reducing the wear and tear on the defensmens bodies?

No benefit there through a long season not taking 10 or so hits a game they otherwise would?

Not enough of one to bother? Does it matter what those guys say about it?

Cause that's the reasoning from the players, coaches, and management.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by 868904

Well you have to think the Flames have stats that say otherwise or the defensmen tell the coaching staff that they prefer Smith.

Because there is a belief within the organization that Smith’s puck handling is a benefit.

Not saying I agree with it.

Generally I trust this team's coaching staff given the overall results. And I don't know if Smith playing the puck helps or not.
But I do think that hockey, like all sports, has a bunch of stuff that are perceived as truths, that analytics are now providing the means to question the legitimacy of.
The best example i can think of is the belief that you shouldn't pull your goalie until about a minute remaining. That's always been the case.
Now you see teams doing it with 2 minutes or more remaining? Why? Because the analysis will tell you that's the optimal time.

I do wonder if having a goalie that plays the puck is a true benefit or just a perceived one.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Generally I trust this team's coaching staff given the overall results. And I don't know if Smith playing the puck helps or not.
But I do think that hockey, like all sports, has a bunch of stuff that are perceived as truths, that analytics are now providing the means to question the legitimacy of.
The best example i can think of is the belief that you shouldn't pull your goalie until about a minute remaining. That's always been the case.
Now you see teams doing it with 2 minutes or more remaining? Why? Because the analysis will tell you that's the optimal time.

I do wonder if having a goalie that plays the puck is a true benefit or just a perceived one.

I really think it's situational. Especially against certain teams.

We heard it after the win in Toronto and the game at home vs the Islanders recently. Both teams credited Smith's puck playing ability as the reason they couldn't generate anything all game.

How did the Islanders adjust their strategy in New York last week? You'd think dumping the puck into the corner more, or trying to carry the puck in more often. It didn't feel like they accomplished much more when it came to chances though.

[Toonage]

Don't know where to put this so I'll put it here. Thought it was interesting how in his last 2 starts Rittich didn't come out to play the puck in situations he had previously.

[Classic_Sniper]

I hate that teams game plan around Mike Smith. It’s like getting stuck with the kid nobody wanted in gym class and everyone is just picking on him and there’s nothing you can do about it.

I still don’t understand this organization. We’ve seen what a great goaltender looks like (Kipper), we’ve seen what bad goaltenders look like (Hiller, Elliott), Bill Peters especially has seen what bad goaltending looks like with all his years in Carolina.

So why are these guys fighting for Smith so much? We didn’t draft him. We didn’t sign him to long term deal. He’s a UFA in a few months. The fans at the dome don’t like him. The team has seen bad goaltending long enough and should know better at this point. So why give him such a long leash while undermining your potential #1 in the future in Rittich.

Smith is done as a starter and it should be obvious by now. The bad goals are not going away, the giveaways behind the net are becoming more frequent and this kind of stuff in the playoffs cannot be tolerated. Rittich should be the starter for playoffs no ifs, ands or buts.


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[Locke]

Originally Posted by AC

I really think it's situational. Especially against certain teams.

We heard it after the win in Toronto and the game at home vs the Islanders recently. Both teams credited Smith's puck playing ability as the reason they couldn't generate anything all game.

How did the Islanders adjust their strategy in New York last week? You'd think dumping the puck into the corner more, or trying to carry the puck in more often. It didn't feel like they accomplished much more when it came to chances though.

Whatever you want to say about the stats and the analytics I think we can conclusively say that they're inconclusive so we're going to have to operate with different information.

Just look at the thread title.

Is Smith amazing? Is he hot garbage?

How about this? Has Mike Smith won or cost more games for the team this season? Someone can run through the games and do the math but I'd bet he's cost this team more games than hes stolen and ergo bled more points than hes earned.

At the end of the day, Wins and Points Earned are the most important analytic.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What is the flames' record in games where they score 2 goals?

Originally Posted by New Era

Games this season where the Flames have scored two or less goals.

Mike Smith

10/3 - 5-2 loss to Vancouver
10/25 - 9-1 loss to Pittsburgh*
11/7 - 3-2 loss to Anaheim
11/11 - 3-1 loss to San Jose
11/15 - 3-2 loss to Montreal
12/6 - 2-0 win over Minnesota
12/22 - 3-1 loss to St. Louis
2/7 - 5-2 loss to San Jose*
2/14 - 3-2 loss to Florida
2/22 - 2-1 win over Anaheim
3/2 - 4-2 loss to Minnesota

David Rittich

10/23 - 3-2 loss to Montreal
10/25 - 9-1 loss to Pittsburgh*
10/30 - 2-1 win over Buffalo
11/10 - 1-0 win over LA
11/23 - 2-0 loss to Vegas
12/9 - 1-0 loss to Edmonton
12/15 - 2-1 win over Minnesota
12/18 - 2-0 loss to Dallas
12-29 - 3-2 loss to Vancouver
2/7 - 5-2 loss to San Jose*
2/24 - 2-1 win over Ottawa
2/27 - 2-1 win over Jersey

* both goaltenders played in game

It seems that when the Flames don't give run support to a goaltender, Rittich has a much greater chance of winning a game than Smith.

Just want to quote this for any that didn't see this post.

When the flames score 2 or less Mike Smith basically gives you no opportunity to win.

This has gone unaddressed all season and at the deadline.

If goaltending is the major factor in a flames ouster in round 1 or 2, I would show Treliving the door.

Boggles my mind how the organization went through deadline day and did basically nothing to improve or insulate the team from their only major weakness.

[David Struch]

Surprisingly, Jimmy Howard was not added to Calgary or any other playoff bound team.

There was some speculation on Jonathan Quick perhaps joining the Flames.

[Classic_Sniper]

Forgot to mention in my post that Mike Smith’s puck moving ability is extremely overrated. I get there’s people in the organization that thinks it’s highly beneficial. But at the end of the day, I haven’t seen enough tangible benefits to say that the “juice is worth the squeeze.”

Like why do we even bother collecting all these puck moving defensemen if we’re just going to rely on Smith to play the puck? If we had big, slow, plodding dmen who are turnover prone than I can understand the line of thinking more. But specifically for this team, it doesn’t make sense.

You don’t have to play the puck every single time Smitty. Let a few go once in a while. That’s their job, your job is to keep that little round disk out of your net.


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[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Surprisingly, Jimmy Howard was not added to Calgary or any other playoff bound team.

There was some speculation on Jonathan Quick perhaps joining the Flames.

I honestly would’ve taken any insurance policy. The potential of a Smith-Gillies combo if BSD goes down scares me. That doesn’t sound like a Stanley Cup winning tandem to me.


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[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Just want to quote this for any that didn't see this post.

When the flames score 2 or less Mike Smith basically gives you no opportunity to win.

This has gone unaddressed all season and at the deadline.

If goaltending is the major factor in a flames ouster in round 1 or 2, I would show Treliving the door.

Boggles my mind how the organization went through deadline day and did basically nothing to improve or insulate the team from their only major weakness.

The "major weakness" that has them as 8th best in the entire NHL at?

If thats the worst thing this team faces...Im good.

[iamca]

So Conny made comments just prior to the trade deadline regarding the goaltending situation, however I seriously doubt if any move will occur.

I would suspect that the likelihood is very slim that a goalie move is made, however forgetting about Smith's gaffes whilst attempting to play the puck, that Donato goal is inexcusable.

Most Junior B goaltenders make that save and it's a back breaker at that stage in the 3rd period.

Goaltending is the Achilles heel for this team, until you look at the details and then the real issue seems squarely pointed at Smith.

The intensity is going to ramp up during the last 17 games, so what do you do?

Roll with what you have?

Keep playing Smith more down the stretch and risk more soft goals?

Play Rittich exclusively except for a back to back game?

Play BSD until he falters?

That was a poor team performance in the 3rd period last night, however Dubnyk kept the Wild in the game during the first 2 periods.

Not sure how often the Flames goaltenders are capable of stealing a game down the stretch, however I am really not confident that Smith is the guy for the Flames to close out the Pacific, the West, or enter the playoffs on a roll.

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[Locke]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Surprisingly, Jimmy Howard was not added to Calgary or any other playoff bound team.

There was some speculation on Jonathan Quick perhaps joining the Flames.

I dont know how steady the legs on that were.

He would have been expensive to acquire, expensive to keep (big cap hit) and hes often injured.

When hes on hes amazing, but hes also getting a little long in the tooth in terms of age and injuries.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The "major weakness" that has them as 8th best in the entire NHL at?

If thats the worst thing this team faces...Im good.

Why be great when you can be 8th amirite?

Just dumb. Mik Smith is a huge problem going back 12 months, but hey, if you combine his stats with rittich the flames are barely a top 10 team in terms of goaltending.

Makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The "major weakness" that has them as 8th best in the entire NHL at?

If thats the worst thing this team faces...Im good.

Love the drama Flash and others bring. Very entertaining, in a junior high kinda way.

That was, I think, the worst attempt at puck handling I have ever seen. What possessed Smith to stand there behind the net for 10 seconds is mind bottling. Can't give away easy ones like that.

Flames need to have Rittich ready for the playoffs. I don't care what the workload is between now and then.