People who think Neal is going to be anywhere but Calgary next year are delusional. Would you trade for him if you were an NHL GM? I’d wager most of us would answer no.
I’ll eat crow if there’s a GM out there dumb enough to trade for him.
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People who think Neal is going to be anywhere but Calgary next year are delusional. Would you trade for him if you were an NHL GM? I’d wager most of us would answer no.
I’ll eat crow if there’s a GM out there dumb enough to trade for him.
I don't think it's about completely dumping Neal, but I can see us pulling off a swap similar to Perron for Hagelin where two underperformers are swapped for each other.
Loui Eriksson is a guy I think we could be looking at. One less year on his contract, better defensively, but just hasn't fit whatsoever in Vancouver.
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If they traded Neal now, they would be selling low. It wouldn't make much sense.
Neal is better than his stats this year show.
Right now, he probably has more negative value than a 1st round pick has positive value.
I would not be willing to trade 1st+ just to sell low on Neal.
His shooting percentage is low, and it took a while to become comfortable with a new team.
He's not really that old, so I bet he's going to rebound a bit.
This year's free agency is relatively young and skilled. It would be nice to be able to make a big signing, but I don't think it's possible.
I find it interesting how generally sour people are on guys like Brodie and Frolik.
The idea or narrative that there are any number of people ready to take their places doesn’t compute for me at this point.
Gio was a 38 point guy last year (and Hamilton’s 44 gave the top pair 82)
This year, Gio, playing mainly with Brodie, could end up being a 80 point guy himself (!), not to mention the 40 or so additional points Brodie should put up.
Frolik came in from Winnipeg off of 2 seasons where he was .5 ppg and played a complete game. The 3M line was the toast of the town and people loved him when he had 44 points in 82, and was +13.
This year, he has spent time up and down the lineup, scratched, and his agent had to note that a good asset was being wasted. Guess what he is doing in the ice? 0.5 PPG, +18. He is on par total production wise with Ryan, Bennett, and Janko, but it is while playing 3/4 of the games. He is the 6th most productive forward, and gets no PP time
I acknowledge that some people take the position that they are both UFAs after next year, salaries and roles need to be evaluated, and some younger players will need to grow.
But the sentiment towards these guys, and the implication that they are not very solid value for money now? Thanks for nothing to two guys who have been steady reliable and productive guys.
Man, Gulutzan did a number on more than just the team last year.
I am glad Tre is the GM and not the people on CP that complain about these guys.
I’d love to see them back next year.
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I have to figure Dube figures into the lineup next season. I could see perhaps Jankowski going out with say Brodie or Frolik for a goalie or that top 6 RW position. Has Dube been playing wing or centre in Stockton?
I defiantly agree with you about Dube but was trying to be realistic in my predictions. I kinda hope they keep Janko..
I am glad Tre is the GM and not the people on CP that complain about these guys.
So am I. He is going to look at dollars, need, plus an expansion draft coming in a few years and he is going to deal TJ Brodie because it makes the absolute most sense.
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I find it interesting how generally sour people are on guys like Brodie and Frolik.
The idea or narrative that there are any number of people ready to take their places doesn’t compute for me at this point.
Gio was a 38 point guy last year (and Hamilton’s 44 gave the top pair 82)
This year, Gio, playing mainly with Brodie, could end up being a 80 point guy himself (!), not to mention the 40 or so additional points Brodie should put up.
Frolik came in from Winnipeg off of 2 seasons where he was .5 ppg and played a complete game. The 3M line was the toast of the town and people loved him when he had 44 points in 82, and was +13.
This year, he has spent time up and down the lineup, scratched, and his agent had to note that a good asset was being wasted. Guess what he is doing in the ice? 0.5 PPG, +18. He is on par total production wise with Ryan, Bennett, and Janko, but it is while playing 3/4 of the games. He is the 6th most productive forward, and gets no PP time
I acknowledge that some people take the position that they are both UFAs after next year, salaries and roles need to be evaluated, and some younger players will need to grow.
But the sentiment towards these guys, and the implication that they are not very solid value for money now? Thanks for nothing to two guys who have been steady reliable and productive guys.
Man, Gulutzan did a number on more than just the team last year.
I am glad Tre is the GM and not the people on CP that complain about these guys.
I’d love to see them back next year.
I don't necessarily think people have soured on Brodie but think its a case of asset management.
We have 7 good assets on defense that can all play in the NHL as well as having Stone signed who probably has very little value. Out of the valuable 7 Brodie and Hamonic are UFA's at the end of next season.
Even if we keep all 7 and re-sign everyone you still only have 6 regular spots on defense so that means you are sitting a player that shouldn't be sitting when a) they are good enough to be in any teams top 6 b) they need to play in order to keep developing (Hanifin, Valimaki, Andersson, Kylington).
We have been fairly lucky with injuries on defense the last couple years, which may be a product of Smith's puck handling, but regardless I think we have 8 guys that should play each and every night. One is Stone so we don't worry about him too much but the others all need to play regularly.
Now you need to choose 1 out of the 7 who is deemed extendable based upon a number of considerations. Logic would dictate Gio and Hanifin are going to be longtime Flames and Valimaki and Andersson are a big part of the future.
For me Hamonic provides too many intangibles to deem him expendable (RHed, gritty, defensive, has size, hits) therefore its between Brodie and Kylington.
Kylington is alot like Brodie when he was young in that they both skate extremely well, are known for their offensive abilities and have had defensive shortcomings coming out of the draft.
I know Brodie has rejuvenated his career this season but I pick the younger asset who has the potential to get better and has a cheap contract over Brodie who is approaching 30, will demand $5mill AAV and has mixed results when playing away from elite dman Gio.
We could use Kylington's low cap hit and the space created by offloading Brodie to upgrade in the top 6 forwards and in net.
It just makes sense does it not?
In regards to Frolik his agent publicly calling out the coach soured alot of us on him especially when he has been trending down in regards to offensive contributions on the 2nd line. He isn't a top 6 forward and we have guys in Dube who could take his roster spot.
In short I actually think ppl have sweetened their opinions of Brodie compared to last year but our depth and expiring contract situation requires us to make a choice on the backend. Frolik we have soured on because he put himself before the team and got his agent to make headlines over his situation. I know this was a last resort because he likely tried everything else before this tactic but I still didn't like it. He was always a player I deemed expendable anyways.
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^ SeanCharles, I see your point of view around asset management.
Just that the young guys are developing but aren’t going to be vets like Brodie next year.
It’s different than the camp that complains in the game threads (enter those things at your own risk), or people saying Brodie is something like the 4th or 5th best defenseman. (There is a reason Peters plays him with Proit and it’s not a demotion)
On Frolik, I know his agent rocked the boat. And some people didn’t like it. But he was right. Peters was not giving him ice. If you watch how his teammates respond to him, they seem to like him quite well. Probably I’d wager that some of them even supported him personally (but of course didn’t weigh in publically, and make it a story more complicated than it was). Even the organization respect the fact that a guy who feels under utilized is pissed.
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I don't think it's about completely dumping Neal, but I can see us pulling off a swap similar to Perron for Hagelin where two underperformers are swapped for each other.
Loui Eriksson is a guy I think we could be looking at. One less year on his contract, better defensively, but just hasn't fit whatsoever in Vancouver.
I dunno about Eriksson. Two years older. Three years removed from his last good year.
Also seeing a Flames jersey with the name Eriksson on the back may trigger some people.
I don't necessarily think people have soured on Brodie
Oh, they absolutely have soured, in part because Brodie wasn't very good for a two month stretch last year, but for other reasons too that he had no control over. These were the kind of opinions you saw on CP about Brodie back before Glen Gulutzan happened:
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Originally Posted by ScorchyScorch
He continues to shine individually despite the team's overall performance and it's showing on paper and on the ice. One would think he should get plenty of consideration for the world cup of hockey and upcoming Olympics based on the way he is trending.
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Originally Posted by PepsiFree
Best defenceman on the Flames.
Most underrated defenceman in the NHL (he's top 10, easy).
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Originally Posted by jaikorven
Agreed and I would even say top 5 in the NHL.
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Originally Posted by heep223
....and also his shot is an absolute muffin. If he had a good shot, he'd win the Norris.
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Originally Posted by Huntingwhale
Brodie was a 4th round pick and literally none of us projected him to be the player he is. I thought he'd top out as a #5, #4 in a career season. We're watching a potential franchise guy unfold in front of our eyes. Not only that, but he has one of the best contracts in the league. Whenever I think of our cap situation and what it will become, l remember that Brodie is an absolute steal and deserves way more. Then I don't feel so bad, cause it could be so much worse.
And for all the flack the Flames have gotten this season and the ''failure'' of a season as some of you like to say, imagine if Brodie didn't' pan out. Imagine he was simply a #5 and not a core guy. What a massive, massive hole that would be. IMO he's the most important piece going forward (other then a #1G).
I'd also like to reiterate what an awesome contract he is on. 4.6/mil for the next 4 years after this season. And not only that, but he signed a bridge contract before to prove himself.
And he does this all without big fanfare, no drama and just kicks ass every single time he's on the ice. There is no player on the team I worry about less then Brodie. What a team player he is.
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Originally Posted by calgarywinning
An absolute treat to watch as a hockey fan. The full meal deal, defensively and offensively. Similar to Doughty in so many ways.
Worried about signing him to a big contract and play goes south, but based on current play he is an elite player.
Also, love him in interviews and how grounded he is. Big fan.
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Originally Posted by dammage79
TJ Brodie. If I am reading stats right, He's trending into Scott Niedermayer territory. I always wanted a Scot Niedermayer type of D man on the Flames, it appears we have one.
Maybe some of you think My praise is a little too high. But I don't think the comparison is that far off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under
I agree that T.J. Brodie is a great story. He is the quarterback of the teams offence IMO.
He brings such a great skill set to our team.
I was thinking about who is more valuable to the team, TJ Brodie or Gaudreau. In the end I think Gaudreau is slightly more valuable to the Flames but it's definitely close.
It's amazing how Brodie is still so underrated around the league. The fact he wasn't named to Team Canada is laughable. Almost every aspect of his game is elite, especially his skating, hockey sense, and passing.
My 2 favourite highlights here are the routes he takes on his OT assist to Monahan in Washington, and his OT goal vs the Rangers at home. In both, he simply embarrasses the other team with a quick decision around the goal. Dougie takes the puck behind the net and Brodie makes it look like he'll give him a passing option on the bump back behind the net but instead just bolts up ice losing 2 Caps in the process. Then his sneaky give-and-go vs NYR to take the breakout pass... wow!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcGold
His ability to create space with his skating is to my knowledge unmatched. Watching him skate with the puck it's clear he can gauge speed correctly both of himself and the opposition. Using that he knows what distance to hold the puck at and what angles to skate at to keep the puck out of reach while not wasting energy with unneeded hustle.
His 360 figure skatingesque moves are so smooth I've never seen anyone else skate quite like it. He will skate between players and identify passing lessons and just know where to be. He makes routinely elite level play look effortless, almost too effortless at times. When he sees he has a step on the opposition and pulls the puck forward it's amazing to watch.
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Originally Posted by activeStick
He's one of those guys who doesn't get noticed unless you follow him game after game through a season so I don't see him ever getting that visibility unless he has an unreal season.
Doesn't matter, because he's a solid dman and the management group knows this.
Calgary's version of Roman Josi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jore
brodie does so many things at an elite level. his anticipation, strength in puck battles, vision, skating, and puck skills are all astonishing. he looks like josi when he rushes the puck, but he's much better than josi without the puck and in the defensive and neutral zones.
Nowadays we have guys on CP calling him a bottom pair defenseman or comparing him to frogs.
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Big time. Where was Cheechoo three years after scoring 56 goals? Players can improve or regress a lot in three seasons
And yet TJ Brodie is having a fantastic season in which he is on pace for 40+ points, among league leaders in on-ice goal differentials, and is second on ice time on the second best team in the NHL.
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And yet TJ Brodie is having a fantastic season in which he is on pace for 40+ points, among league leaders in on-ice goal differentials, and is second on ice time on the second best team in the NHL.
Where did I bring up TJ Brodie? I was agreeing and showing a lot can change in three years.
Oh, they absolutely have soured, in part because Brodie wasn't very good for a two month stretch last year, but for other reasons too that he had no control over. These were the kind of opinions you saw on CP about Brodie back before Glen Gulutzan happened:
Nowadays we have guys on CP calling him a bottom pair defenseman or comparing him to frogs.
haha fair enough but for me he is easily a top 4 defenseman and anyone who doesn't see that isn't being objective.
I agree he makes mistakes and they generally end up in our net but he is playing tough minutes and it should be expected when you play against the best forwards each night.
Even though I think he is a top 4 dman I still think he is less valuable to the team than Hamonic, Gio and Hanifin. This is primarily because Hamonic is so unique to our d-core and we need him in order to not have a bunch of lefthanded softies in our top 6. Meanwhile Gio is elite and signed long-term and Hanifin is signed and has big upside.
Due to this I think I can understand why people think he is our 4th best dman. Gio is clearly number one, Hamonic plays on the top PK unit and he and Hanifin do still see hard minutes. I wouldn't go as far as to say he is our 5th best dman. IMO he is likely our 3 best dman and is no doubt in the 2-4 range.
For me what makes me lean towards trading him is his value is high, his contract is expiring soon and we have 3 emerging youngsters.
If he was signed for 2 more seasons I would have no problem rolling out a top 7 of #5,#7,#55,#24,#58,#4,#8 but #7 and #24 are expiring and losing one/both for nothing is unacceptable. Re-signing both is unrealistic unless Kylington is traded and I don't want to trade Kylington, at least not until we see more of him at the NHL level - perhaps even on the PP.
Last edited by SeanCharles; 02-26-2019 at 05:03 PM.
If he was signed for 2 more seasons I would have no problem rolling out a top 7 of #5,#7,#55,#24,#58,#4,#8 but #7 and #24 are expiring and losing one/both for nothing is unacceptable.
If you trade them in the offseason you will either be risking a playoff spot or paying prime assets for a D rental at the deadline. These are more unacceptable.
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 02-26-2019 at 05:21 PM.
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If you trade them in the offseason you will either be risking a playoff spot or paying prime assets for a D rental at the deadline. These are more unacceptable.
Well assuming we trade Brodie we still have Gio, Hamonic, Hanifin, Andersson, Kylington and Valimaki. There is also a high possibility we re-sign Prout and Fantenberg.
This isn't even taking Stone into consideration.
I just don't see it as a big issue unless we run into major injuries on the back end next season.
