Arena Negotiation Discussion v2

[sureLoss]

Scott Dippel @CBCScott
Michael Brown w CMLC running through public engagement process, site selection and costing of a new arena in Vic Park. #yyccc

Brown says a source of funding for a new arena has been identified. No details of course. #yyccc

Before the committee departed, Brown said a new arena ‘will pay itself back in terms of the benefit that it will bring our community in better than a 1 to 1 ratio’.

[sureLoss]

Meghan Potkins @mpotkins

"We have developed a proposal (that) ultimately could be forwarded to council, with the intent of forwarding it to a potential partner," — (i.e. Flames)— says Michael Brown, CMLC president.

Brown warns that the proposal is "commercially sensitive" — hence in-camera discussion.

Committee will issue recommendations to council today relating to the arena funding proposal.

Not sure how much will be public. Stay tuned.

[Fire]

Has the CMLC been in communication with the Flames when creating this proposal or will this be a big surprise when the Flames look at it? If it's the latter I won't get my hopes up.

[Muta]

I'd give Michael Brown / CMLC the benefit of the doubt here. They're probably more in the know with what the expectations of both sides are than we are.

[Bunk]

I am confident in CMLC too. They were a big driving force behind the success of the Central Library - gaining accolades like this:

https://twitter.com/snohetta/status/1098309691212484608

I hope and wonder too if they could rethink the arena like they were able to with the library.

As far as financial structure, I like how they're thinking of it more as a comprehensive redevelopment (with this at its centre) rather than a stand alone arena project - I think it'll shape how the financial deal is ultimately structured - something I asked Brown in my podcast and was happy to hear they were actively talking about.

[Robbob]

Didn't the CMLC actually go to the Flames and get access to the information around inverted arena proposal so they could get estimates on an arena? I recall something to that effect was mentioned in a meeting. I think they signed an NDA around all of that. So if that is correct than I think they know exactly what the Flames want.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Fire

Has the CMLC been in communication with the Flames when creating this proposal or will this be a big surprise when the Flames look at it? If it's the latter I won't get my hopes up.

So long as they make sure Ken King has a plug in spot out front of the building, it's a done deal.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Didn't the CMLC actually go to the Flames and get access to the information around inverted arena proposal so they could get estimates on an arena? I recall something to that effect was mentioned in a meeting. I think they signed an NDA around all of that. So if that is correct than I think they know exactly what the Flames want.

My understanding from someone involved is yes the Flames have been involved and are positive on this concept.

[The Yen Man]

Fingers crossed that cooler heads prevail and this time there's some real traction. I'm tired of the rhetoric from both sides. I just want them to come together and get this thing done.

[Bunk]

Scott Dippel
‏@CBCScott

It appears the City's negotiating position was what was discussed in closed session today. If #yyccc approves the still-secret proposal, then the City would appoint a negotiating team and contact CSEC to formally re-open talks on a possible funding arrangement for a new arena.

https://twitter.com/CBCScott/status/1098355193215741952

Negotiations likely to formally re-open with a City position come Monday.

[Bunk]

Meghan Potkins
@mpotkins

The committee spent close to 2hrs in-camera this afternoon. Appears that committee members have endorsed a "term sheet" — i.e. the city's negotiating position — on a potential arena deal. Term sheet will go to #yyccc Monday for approval. Could then be presented to the Flames.

https://twitter.com/mpotkins/status/1098357661068779520

[Zarley]

I really hope they can design this in a way that keeps this building active at all hours - be it through retail / restaurants that face both the street and inside the building, or some other type of innovative incorporation of public space.

It would be great if they could incorporate a plaza with a legitimate outdoor rink. It's one thing the Beltline is really missing, there's plenty of places to skate but you have to go outside the neighbourhood to play hockey.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I really hope they can design this in a way that keeps this building active at all hours - be it through retail / restaurants that face both the street and inside the building, or some other type of innovative incorporation of public space.

It would be great if they could incorporate a plaza with a legitimate outdoor rink. It's one thing the Beltline is really missing, there's plenty of places to skate but you have to go outside the neighbourhood to play hockey.

I would assume that any plan would probably be somewhat reminiscent of the Stampede Trail proposal with a rink as a center piece. An outdoor rink would be an awesome idea and I think that a large, public plaza should be a must so that fans can celebrate when the occassion comes up (red mile days.)

[sureLoss]

CMLC @CalgaryMLC
“LA Live worked for LA, but we need a story that makes sense for Calgary. If we get all the elements together, that’s when we’ll truly have something special. We need a holistic vision, but also the ability to adapt that vision as the world changes.”
– M. Brown, CMLC Pres. & CEO

[Fuzz]

^
I think that is the difference between a sports organization designing an entertainment district and one staffed by professionals who know what they are doing. I'm happy that CMLC has taken the ball on this.

[Kipper is King]

As for those calling for a plebiscite (cough, cough attention-seeking Jeromy Farkas!), if every notable infrastructure development with some degree of public funding went to a plebiscite, nothing would ever get built in the city due both to the time involved in organizing plebiscites, as well as people who would instantly kybosh any potential increase in taxes for any reason.

Hopefully, that latter point isn't too significant. If the deal is more sensible than what was pitched for CalgaryNEXT, I say let's move forward.

[troutman]

The Flames at the top of the standings might make this the best time ever for a plebiscite. More difficult if they were struggling.

[ynwa03]

Originally Posted by Kipper is King

As for those calling for a plebiscite (cough, cough attention-seeking Jeromy Farkas!), if every notable infrastructure development with some degree of public funding went to a plebiscite, nothing would ever get built in the city due both to the time involved in organizing plebiscites, as well as people who would instantly kybosh any potential increase in taxes for any reason.

Hopefully, that latter point isn't too significant. If the deal is more sensible than what was pitched for CalgaryNEXT, I say let's move forward.

How about this - plebiscites are okay if it's for public dollars subsidizing, in full or in part, a private entity, and a waste of time if it's public funding going strictly to a public cause.

If you're building a library, there really is no need for a plebiscite. If you are using tax payer dollars to subsidize an expansion to Chinook Mall, or the construction of an arena for a private sports team, then it doesn't seem attention seeking to ask for a plebiscite.

Easy-peasy.

[Ozy_Flame]

Please no not another plebiscite. The public strikes everything down as long as it involves spending more than one penny of City dollars. This will never get done if we keep deferring major infrastructure project decisions to average Joe and Jane. The City, CMLC, and CSEC should just push this through and trust the urban planners, economists, financiers, and developers to make this happen. They have already acknowledged in the past that they learned lessons from what Edmonton's Ice District has done (and even that has turned out surprisingly well in the long run).

[Benched]

I've been pretty skeptical/pessimistic about the process thus far, the large public dollars in use for what I see as 'little tangible gain', the personalities and the in media arguing back and forth, the threats of moving, etc...

The new info coming out, the way it's being handled, I get a feeling of competence. I also get a feeling that an equitable deal is being formed, not one side trying to gouge the other.

I guess I'm saying my confidence is higher than it's been during the process thus far. We'll see what it looks like when the details come out and what CSEC has to say.