NHL.com: Bennett rounding into form as guy who can do everything for the Flames

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by New Era

A reach by Johnson IMO. Bennett is guy that does nothing really well. Not a great skater. Not a great passer. Doesn't have a shot to save his life. Doesn't think the game overly well. But working in Bennett's favor is he isn't terrible at anything - well maybe his shot is terrible. He does play with some fire, but he's no where near the Doug Gilmour people compared him to in junior. He's a slightly more skilled Eric Nystrom.

Sam Bennett has turned into an effective third liner, who never really came close to his draft pedigree. You want more out a 4th over pick than a guy who tries hard and plays with an edge. You get guys like that in the layer rounds of the draft. Not really Bennett's fault, but the Flames scouting should have been better. I guess we can thank our lucky stars they didn't take Dal Colle.

If anyone offersheets Bennet you take the pick/picks and run. Sam Bennett is a supporting cast player and you don't pay a lot for him. He's Calgary's answer to Charlie Coyle. And Minnesota would love to get out from underneath the last year of his $3.2M contract. Don't overpay for guys who aren't difference makers.

I agree. Bennett never becomes a great player. He is what he is, which is an energy player with mediocre skills and no box to bring them all together. I also agree that Bennett is no Landeskog. Bennett will be luck if his point totals equal Landeskog's goal output this year.


Here's all of Bennett's goals this season.
























If you take the distance from the paint that Bennett scores his goals, he's lucky if he gets to between the hashmarks and the top of the circles. Can't get excited about this guy and don't want to see the team pay a lot for players like this.

Going to enjoy seeing you eat crow. Your entire premise is based on a 22 year old who spent 2 years under gg is what he is. Not likely.

[GranteedEV]

I'm not really interested in engaging New Era on this topic given how vehement we both are on the player, but for anyone else, here are a few goals I could recall that Bennett has scored from outside the paint area









The common theme in all of these is his linemates are guys like

Backlund/Tkachuk x 2
Gaudreau
Backlund/Hudler

You know... people that can set up a goal from outside or keep the pressure up in the offensive zone. Top Six forwards.

You play with grinders and you will not get the same high quality outside opportunities and you need to score the greasy goals. He does what he can with the opportunies he gets. It was only a year ago Elias Lindholm's shot was considered a muffin, for much the same reason.

If anything our PP could stand to set him up, all too often I see him wait on the right circle loading up a one timer only for the puck to never arrive there.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Goals from three years ago, versus his goals this season. Yup, I can see which ones are more relevant.

Seriously, Bennett has almost 300 games under his belt. How many players show significant improvement after 300 games into their careers? I keep hearing comparisons to Gary Roberts, but Gary Roberts was coming off a 22 goal season as a 22 year old in his 177th game. At his 250th game, he was at the tail end of a 39 goal season. At 300 games he was in the middle of a season where he would score his 100th goal. That's where Bennett should be comparatively. For Bennett to get on the same track as Gary Roberts, he would have to double his scoring output almost immediately.

Hey, I would love it if Bennett turned into Gary Roberts. I would love it if Bennett turned into a guy that could score 20 goals consistently. But he is at a point where he is pretty much locked into his skill set and there is not much of a development curve left. Its not like he's going to develop greater hand eye coordination or find something missing in his game. It just seems so unlikely that a guy with that many games under his belt is going to see dramatic improvement. I just hope he surpasses 62 goals and 136 points by time he hits 350 games. That's all I ask at this point.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by New Era

Goals from three years ago, versus his goals this season. Yup, I can see which ones are more relevant.

Seriously, Bennett has almost 300 games under his belt. How many players show significant improvement after 300 games into their careers? I keep hearing comparisons to Gary Roberts, but Gary Roberts was coming off a 22 goal season as a 22 year old in his 177th game. At his 250th game, he was at the tail end of a 39 goal season. At 300 games he was in the middle of a season where he would score his 100th goal. That's where Bennett should be comparatively. For Bennett to get on the same track as Gary Roberts, he would have to double his scoring output almost immediately.

Hey, I would love it if Bennett turned into Gary Roberts. I would love it if Bennett turned into a guy that could score 20 goals consistently. But he is at a point where he is pretty much locked into his skill set and there is not much of a development curve left. Its not like he's going to develop greater hand eye coordination or find something missing in his game. It just seems so unlikely that a guy with that many games under his belt is going to see dramatic improvement. I just hope he surpasses 62 goals and 136 points by time he hits 350 games. That's all I ask at this point.

Doesnt matter if he played 800 games maturity is different
At 25 than it is at 22 and it translates different on the ice.

Oh and blake wheeler and kadri and backlund and kessler, shultz and dubnyk say hi.
Every stat show player offensive peaks are between about 23 24 and about 28, but bennett is what he is because well because apparently.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Fan69

Doesnt matter if he played 800 games maturity is different
At 25 than it is at 22 and it translates different on the ice.

Oh and blake wheeler and kadri and backlund and kessler, shultz and dubnyk say hi.
Every stat show player offensive peaks are between about 23 24 and about 28, but bennett is what he is because well because apparently.

Oh come on, Blake Wheeler didn't play in the NHL until he was 22 years old because he was a college player! And then he scored 21 goals and 45 points in his rookie season. Not the same thing. Kesler, like Wheeler, was a college kid and then had to deal with the lockout, holding his career back. But by time he had played his 250th game he was coming off a 21 goal season and was half way through a 26 goal season. Again, not the same. Kadri became a full time NHLer at 22 after spending parts of three years in the minors. Again, not at all like Bennett. But by time he played his 250th game he already had season of 18, 20 and 18 goals under his belt. I don't know why you bring up Dubnyk, or what a goaltender has anything to do with anything? I'll give you Backlund, and he is your best comparable, but Backlund showed that he could play in a couple of his, but had problems staying healthy. For alost all players that 250 game mark is a real watershed moment. Once you hit that number, you're kind of locked in.

[Gaskal]

He's about 0.5 PPG in NHL postseason.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by New Era

Oh come on, Blake Wheeler didn't play in the NHL until he was 22 years old because he was a college player! And then he scored 21 goals and 45 points in his rookie season. Not the same thing. Kesler, like Wheeler, was a college kid and then had to deal with the lockout, holding his career back. But by time he had played his 250th game he was coming off a 21 goal season and was half way through a 26 goal season. Again, not the same. Kadri became a full time NHLer at 22 after spending parts of three years in the minors. Again, not at all like Bennett. But by time he played his 250th game he already had season of 18, 20 and 18 goals under his belt. I don't know why you bring up Dubnyk, or what a goaltender has anything to do with anything? I'll give you Backlund, and he is your best comparable, but Backlund showed that he could play in a couple of his, but had problems staying healthy. For alost all players that 250 game mark is a real watershed moment. Once you hit that number, you're kind of locked in.

Ok so what part of your different at 25 than you are at 22 did miss here. Not to mention you reinforced my arguement that they had success after the age of 22 in the nhl.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Close. 6 points in 15 games is .4 PPG? In that same time both Gaudreau and Monahan have 11 points. Brodie has 9 points. Backlund has five. Those are the only guys on the team that played both series for comparison sake (Gio was hurt the first year). Let's hope he turns into this post season beast that you're predicting.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by New Era

Oh come on, Blake Wheeler didn't play in the NHL until he was 22 years old because he was a college player!

And what was he doing in college? Nothing about his time in college reflected the performance expected of a top 5 draft pick. If anything it resembled Mark Jankowski's college career... signs of totally busting.

And then he scored 21 goals and 45 points in his rookie season. Not the same thing.

Correct. Not the same thing because he was being centered by David Krejci for 68% of his 5v5 ice time and 80% of his PP time that year. Another 19% 5v5 centered by Marc Savard. Plus the occasional stint with Patrice Bergeron.

And then 23 year old Wheeler had 38 pts, which is basically identical to what 19 year old Bennett did, except Bennett spent large chunks of his rookie year playing with such future HoFers as Markus Granlund, Joe Colborne, Josh Jooris, Lance Bouma, with the highlight being playing with Backlund for half the season. Backlund who would not crack the 1-2-3 punch those Bruins teams had prior to Savard's career ending.

I especially like how you insinuate players only develop outside of the NHL. Guy takes 5 years to get to the NHL? Nope, no development happened there. Guy makes the NHL at age 18? 300 games spent dragging around Jankowskis and Hathaways and Brouwers and he's done developing at age 22.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Fan69

Ok so what part of your different at 25 than you are at 22 did miss here. Not to mention you reinforced my arguement that they had success after the age of 22 in the nhl.

Except that they didn't play much in the NHL at that age. You don't develop your skills or your game in the NHL, that's what the minors is for. You adjust to the speed of the game, and for some players that does take time, but you do not develop new skills once you hit the show, you got what you got. It takes some players a couple seasons to get their footing. Almost always by 250 games a player has achieved a standard for their play. Bennett surpassed that at the end of last season. He's almost at 300 games. He'll be at 325 at the end of this season. Hey, at least it looks like he's cut a niche out for himself and won't Yakupov.

[Stay Golden]

Bennett is streaky sure but still for all that he provides this soft roster i wouldn't even consider trading him.
Bennett does a number of things that several players won't do for this team or are not as effective as Bennett,
Hits with physical intent.
Fights.
Sticks up for his line mates and himself at every chance in a scrum.
Gets under the other teams skin.
Not afraid to block shots.
and and plays a full both ends of the ice game.

Bennett also hasn't taken as "many" dumb penalties as he did last season.

Last season he had 26 pts with a minus 18.
This season same amount of goals 11 and 23 pts and minus 2 with lots of hockey left.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by New Era

Except that they didn't play much in the NHL at that age. You don't develop your skills or your game in the NHL, that's what the minors is for. You adjust to the speed of the game, and for some players that does take time, but you do not develop new skills once you hit the show, you got what you got. It takes some players a couple seasons to get their footing. Almost always by 250 games a player has achieved a standard for their play. Bennett surpassed that at the end of last season. He's almost at 300 games. He'll be at 325 at the end of this season. Hey, at least it looks like he's cut a niche out for himself and won't Yakupov.

You dont develop your skills once you reach the nhl?
Ive obviously been outwitted here.

[cofias]

Originally Posted by New Era

Except that they didn't play much in the NHL at that age. You don't develop your skills or your game in the NHL, that's what the minors is for. You adjust to the speed of the game, and for some players that does take time, but you do not develop new skills once you hit the show, you got what you got. It takes some players a couple seasons to get their footing. Almost always by 250 games a player has achieved a standard for their play. Bennett surpassed that at the end of last season. He's almost at 300 games. He'll be at 325 at the end of this season. Hey, at least it looks like he's cut a niche out for himself and won't Yakupov.

Interesting take. Where is this stuff coming from? Never heard this before.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by cofias

Interesting take. Where is this stuff coming from? Never heard this before.

You don't learn to hit a curve ball in the bigs. That's what developmental leagues are for. You don't learn how to shoot a puck in the NHL. You don't learn to pass in the NHL. You develop your skills in the development leagues. Once you make the show you adapt or die. You adjust to the speed of the game and learn to do things at speed, but you don't see many players develop new skills once they make the NHL. Players make the NHL because of the skills they have, not because they are going to develop new ones. It is the speed of the game they adjust to. Players skate faster, shoot harder, do things at a higher speed, and it takes time to adjust to that speed. But if after 250 games you haven't figured it out, you're not going to magically wake up one day and be able to deal with that speed. You certainly aren't going to wake up one day and all of a sudden find a new skill in your bag. Bennett is what he is. Fortunately one of his skills is a big a heart and bit of a nasty streak so he can have success as a role player. But those holding out that he's going to turn into a consistent 20-30 goal and 50-60 point player have unreasonable expectations. Almost 300 games into his career and he's still a 10-15 goal, 25-30 point guy. And that is fine. He's got a role, and that is his to play. Let's hope that limited role helps the team to success.

[Vinny01]

New Era how do you explain Lindholm who after 5 years in the league and 300+ games is on pace to more than double his career high in both goals and points? This is a player that Cane fans warned us all summer had a muffin shot which is clearly not the case.

Sam Bennett is clearly a different player this year than last even though he is scoring at a similar rate. He is sticking up for his teammates more, he is throwing big hits and is far more noticeable in big games as a difference maker. He is reinventing himself as a player and maturing. It is truly laughable to suggest a player is what he is at 22

[dissentowner]

This is Where RU Chris O'Sullivan all over again except different player.

[Roof-Daddy]

Such a polarizing player.

If he had been a 4th round pick instead of 4th overall he'd be a fan favorite across the board.

This is what you get with failure to meet lofty expectations I suppose.

Sure fire 1st line C was expected, looks more like a tough as nails depth scoring 3rd line winger.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Do the Flames match at $4 Million? I agree and suspect we will, but I don't think it is an automatic. We have other contracts to worry about as well.



This would be one where the Oilers could mess with a rival's pay structure.

The Oilers can’t afford it. They will have a little over $10.0 m in cap space to sign five players, including at least three RFAs—two of whom also have arbitration rights.

The Oilers are not offer-sheeting anyone.


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[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

New Era how do you explain Lindholm who after 5 years in the league and 300+ games is on pace to more than double his career high in both goals and points? This is a player that Cane fans warned us all summer had a muffin shot which is clearly not the case.

Johnny Gaudreau and Sean Monahan. Pretty simple. Never had skilled linemates like this in Carolina. Always played a solid game and always had the skill, just not the linemates to do it. I also fail to see where Lindholm was some under-performing bum in Carolina. After establishing himself as a full time player, seasons of 39, 39, 45 and 44 points, with a bias towards distribution more so than goal scoring (60-65% assists versus goals). Playing with Gaudreau and Monahan he is maintaining that split (63.24% assists versus goals). His game is the same, he's just playing with two very gifted players and that shows in a production increase. The question you should be asking is why has Bennett never been able to produce with Gaudreau and Monahan like Lindholm has?

Sam Bennett is clearly a different player this year than last even though he is scoring at a similar rate. He is sticking up for his teammates more, he is throwing big hits and is far more noticeable in big games as a difference maker. He is reinventing himself as a player and maturing. It is truly laughable to suggest a player is what he is at 22

No, what is truly laughable is suggesting that a player that shows so little still has so much potential to improve. Suggesting that going elsewhere will see him magically turn into a huge scorer, when he couldn't score playing with Gaudreau and Monahan, is truly laughable. As you stated, Bennett has been forced to reinvent himself and become an energy player. He clearly doesn't have the skill to be a scorer, so he has to commit to contributing in other areas. I commend Bennett for coming to this conclusion and committing to doing whatever it takes, as not a lot of players ever come to this realization until it is too late. Bennett is turning himself into a role player, which ultimately will help the team, so long as they can afford his salary demands. He's Calgary's version of Charlie Coyle. Time to accept that.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

Johnny Gaudreau and Sean Monahan. Pretty simple. Never had skilled linemates like this in Carolina. Always played a solid game and always had the skill, just not the linemates to do it. I also fail to see where Lindholm was some under-performing bum in Carolina. After establishing himself as a full time player, seasons of 39, 39, 45 and 44 points, with a bias towards distribution more so than goal scoring (60-65% assists versus goals). Playing with Gaudreau and Monahan he is maintaining that split (63.24% assists versus goals). His game is the same, he's just playing with two very gifted players and that shows in a production increase. The question you should be asking is why has Bennett never been able to produce with Gaudreau and Monahan like Lindholm has?....

The simple answer to your question is “No, I don’t.” But the attribution of Lindholm’s success exclusively to Monahan and Gaudreau is just wrong. Lindholm is driving and producing on every line he plays this year. He is arguably, presently the Flames most complete player. No, his emergence this year is not merely a product of his line mates. Lindholm has been exceptional.


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