Calgarypuck Mafia Game Thread

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by devo22

since we're at it, why didn't you vote on day 3? You said you'd have no problem hammering, but then didn't. Isn't that pretty much what you're accusing me of on day 4 - having a prime suspect but not voting for him?

Firstly I don't take issue with you not voting. What I am taking issue with is that it comes across as you HAD to vote GGG, but another day you were ok with not voting. The day you come across as needing to get your vote was the day it was an Oiler, hence why I think it's fishy.

I didn't vote because it took me a while to come around on the eoj vote, by the time I was comfortable with voting him it was clear he was going to be voted off. I didn't hammer him because as no one spoke up when I asked if we were done, so I went to bed.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

You said we have worked together before and used it as a point to make me look like an Oiler fan. Oling even said he randomly assigned roles, so GGG and I working together in a previous game means nothing.

oh I know the roles are randomly assigned, that's obvious. Also I'm not making a point of you being Oiler because you worked together before, all I'm saying is that, knowing that GGG flipped Oiler, re-reading your interactions at the start of the game is pretty interesting. GGG wastes about 0.3 seconds to throw a vote at you. If you were working together, trying hard to separate from each other because of earlier games makes sense, don't you agree?

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Do you know why I am looking at you so hard right now? The night kills in my opinion have been used as a vehicle to implicate me, and I don't believe the other two have the brains to make that happen (no offense intended).

I'm not even sure the nightkills have been used much to implicate you. It was DropIt who brought up the "why hasn't HG been nightkilled yet" and he flipped town. If the last Oiler wanted to use that as a way to get you lynched, I'd have expected him/her to at least nudged into that direction. But zero, it was DropIt who raised the question. Personally I just, like I said before, think the nightkills were smart. Not in a "let's frame HG" way, but in a general "makes sense from a mullet POV" way.

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

I'm bringing up things I notice with you and you are providing me your explaination, that's how we are going to get to the bottom of who the last Oiler is.

and that's fine. You're doing it just with me though, so that's why I'm accusing you of "tunnel vision". If you're the Oiler, you have to focus on me because I voted for you and building a case against me gets you the win. But if neither of us is the Oiler, he/she just has to sit back and wait while we throw #### at each other.

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

What I am taking issue with is that it comes across as you HAD to vote GGG

again, that's just your interpretation. As I've stated, I was convinced that GGG was an Oiler, that's it.

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

I didn't vote because it took me a while to come around on the eoj vote, by the time I was comfortable with voting him it was clear he was going to be voted off. I didn't hammer him because as no one spoke up when I asked if we were done, so I went to bed.

fine. Pretty much the same reason I had on day 4 then.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by devo22

oh I know the roles are randomly assigned, that's obvious. Also I'm not making a point of you being Oiler because you worked together before, all I'm saying is that, knowing that GGG flipped Oiler, re-reading your interactions at the start of the game is pretty interesting. GGG wastes about 0.3 seconds to throw a vote at you. If you were working together, trying hard to separate from each other because of earlier games makes sense, don't you agree?

If I was working with GGG no I don't think trying to separate that quick into the game matters. It was so quick into the game and voting for one of the dumbest reasons ever of "being too helpful" in a game with a bunch of new people looks to me like GGG is just trying to make noise until they can get their plan together.

Originally Posted by devo22

I'm not even sure the nightkills have been used much to implicate you. It was DropIt who brought up the "why hasn't HG been nightkilled yet" and he flipped town. If the last Oiler wanted to use that as a way to get you lynched, I'd have expected him/her to at least nudged into that direction. But zero, it was DropIt who raised the question. Personally I just, like I said before, think the nightkills were smart. Not in a "let's frame HG" way, but in a general "makes sense from a mullet POV" way.

Maybe you aren't looking at the night kills the way I am because your name isn't tied to as many as mine. It's hard for me to look at it and not believe that.

Originally Posted by devo22

and that's fine. You're doing it just with me though, so that's why I'm accusing you of "tunnel vision". If you're the Oiler, you have to focus on me because I voted for you and building a case against me gets you the win. But if neither of us is the Oiler, he/she just has to sit back and wait while we throw #### at each other.

If you're not the Oiler and you want me to go back and look at the other two then you (and puxlut and winnipegfan) need to contribute and do the same. I feel like I'm the only one trying to do any digging and find the Oiler. You 3 are sitting here not posting anything. If I'm wrong and you 3 are looking back at stuff then great, but if you see something you think is suspicious then post it, don't keep it to yourself. We're smarter and more likely to find the Oiler if we work together, stop playing as individuals.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

If you're not the Oiler and you want me to go back and look at the other two then you (and puxlut and winnipegfan) need to contribute and do the same. I feel like I'm the only one trying to do any digging and find the Oiler. You 3 are sitting here not posting anything. If I'm wrong and you 3 are looking back at stuff then great, but if you see something you think is suspicious then post it, don't keep it to yourself. We're smarter and more likely to find the Oiler if we work together, stop playing as individuals.

I'll do another round of re-reading tomorrow and I'm sure the others are looking too. It's not like you're the only one digging. Won't be around a lot tonight though because, as you once said, "life happens".

Not alot of time in between a 9.5 hour work day and my next shift as taxi-mom. Some of the non-votes have been bugging me...

HG: On day 1, why did you vote Scorn and only Scorn? Everyone threw out a couple of votes on that day.
On day 3 why didn't you vote?

WF: Essentially with the messed up vote on agulati on day 1, you didn't vote at all. Why was that?

The other thing that was weird for me was Ag voted HG but then got pulled into the eoj vote. But then was night killed... was it because of his first vote on HG?

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Puxlut

Not alot of time in between a 9.5 hour work day and my next shift as taxi-mom. Some of the non-votes have been bugging me...

HG: On day 1, why did you vote Scorn and only Scorn? Everyone threw out a couple of votes on that day.
On day 3 why didn't you vote?

WF: Essentially with the messed up vote on agulati on day 1, you didn't vote at all. Why was that?

The other thing that was weird for me was Ag voted HG but then got pulled into the eoj vote. But then was night killed... was it because of his first vote on HG?

I voted him originally for being inactive, then I left it on him because he jumped on the winnipegfan vote with no reasoning, and he was new but wasn’t asking any questions and was talking about the game being meta.

I didn’t vote on day 3 because it took me a while to be confident with the EOJ vote, when I was ready to vote it was hammer so I was waiting to see if anyone had more to discuss.

[Hockeyguy15]

Sorry I missed the part about why I didn’t change my vote. I didn’t change it because Scornfire was posting about how he thought I was working with GGG and baiting him. I wasn’t sure what he meant by baiting him and thought it was him trying to force a link that wasn’t there so it was suspicious to me. I didn’t feel the need to move off of him later since I was comfortable enough with my reasoning for a day 1 vote.

[WinnipegFan]

[QUOTE=
Do you know why I am looking at you so hard right now? The night kills in my opinion have been used as a vehicle to implicate me, and I don't believe the other two have the brains to make that happen (no offense intended). Both have done nothing all game, so either they are just not the best players or they are doing a fantastic job as the last Oiler. I'm picking the scenario I think is most likey and investigating what I find.[/QUOTE]

Wow , is it a good tactic to insult the only other two people in the game that could possibly vote with you on your theory? This is a bit of a slip no? You don't try to get us on board at all with this behaviour.

[WinnipegFan]

Guys,

I am watching Devo and HG throw poop at each other while I was bust with work today and Pux claims the same. However, I am just observing and re read through more posts than I wanted and to be honest I can't make a case against Devo. I can see a case against HG, but my gut is still saying Pux is an obvious choice as she is making no sense in her posts when she even bothers. She has sat back and watched most of this game despite being an avid poster for numbers her posts for the most part mean nothing.

Now I will own my play, it started as an emotional revenge vote on Day 1, then I had a good back and forth with Scorn where I eventually showed my theory and in the end I was wrong but voted for him for not playing. I am not experienced enough to have played what many would think as a "good" game but I have played with transparency so I can love with that. I voted where I believed to be the right place. Currently my gut points to Puxlut in the end as I know I am not the Oiler and it feels like she is allowing you both to target each other while staying in the shadows. Her last posts about a tie and her other post seem like nothing fodder for a post but not even engaging in the debate. I truly believe Devo is town, I am have reservations about HG and my primary suspect would be Pux. I keep looking and she seems to play a game that would allow her previous play to smokescreen her Oiler status. Just a thought, not firmed up enough to be a vote.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

Wow , is it a good tactic to insult the only other two people in the game that could possibly vote with you on your theory? This is a bit of a slip no? You don't try to get us on board at all with this behaviour.

It wasn't meant as an insult, it was likely a little blunt because I am frustrated at the lack of posting with the deadline approaching. We are all supposed to be going through and bringing up things that we believe show who is the Oiler. If we sit here and do nothing it makes it easy for the last Oiler to sit back and do nothing. If they are doing nothing they can't make mistakes.If you're going back and reading that's only one peice, you still need to post things that look off to you when you see it. As I said you might see something that the rest of us missed.

[devo22]

wall of text coming. I've done a re-read of the first 3 days, noting what stuck out about your moves. Will do day 4-6 later, but need to step away for an hour or so. This really is a draining exercise and things tend to blend into each other, so stepping away for a bit might help. Feel free to comment on anything in the meantime though, I'd be happy if you did.

In general, it really shows that HG15 is not only the most vocal player in terms of post numbers, but also in terms of substance. Pux has a lot of posts, but there's a lot less in there to focus on, think about or tear apart. WinnipegFan just wasn't around a lot in the early days of the game and just picked personal fights ... re-reading days 4-6 will be a lot more interesting here because he clearly needed to find his feet.

[devo22]

DAY 1

Hockeyguy15

- I've already mentioned the early interactions between GGG and Hockeyguy15. The constant bickering against each other just feels a bit forced and on purpose. GGGs early vote and unvote feels like something they could go back to later to show they aren't aligned. There's also one moment later on when HG15 calls GGG out on missing the Scornfire votes (293).

- HG15 asks very early (58) whether we should give the mod tips who we should investigate. Obviously that could because he's just helpful town, but it could also be because he's concerned that GGG could be investigated early. If conversation goes that way, mafia will want to try to steer the ship into another direction, but the mod talk goes nowhere, interestingly.

- generally strikes a pretty helpful tone, especially towards new players. Either he's super friendly this time or it's just a ploy.

- votes for Scornfire pretty early (90), citing a lack of contribution. Says he's leaving his vote on him because his posts are fluff and there's no explanation for his WF vote (183, 236). It's also pretty interesting that he reiterates that argument late and also calls out Scorn for using "meta" (315). At that point, it's a 3 way tie between Bonded, Scorn and agulati. Maybe another attempt to sink Scorn and save Bonded? Scorn defends himself and accuses HG15 and GGG of working together (318), which HG15 denies while again calling out GGG (325).

Puxlut

- says GGG and HG15 are the most frequent posters, but GGGs posts have more substance. GGG oddly calls her out on it and switches his vote from HG15 to her. She immediately flatters him even more (113). Again flatters GGG, HG15 and Biz later (255). GGG unvotes for her only to save Bonded (275-279). If she's mafia, GGG maybe planned to stay on her as proof of separation later, but Bonded being in danger of being lynched forces him to switch to agulati.

- plays the "I'm stupid" card more than once (103/106, 113).

- says she'd rather keep an experienced player on day 1 (281), pretty much doing a reverse GGG who wanted to save the newbies (we now know why). Reiterates that argument when she votes Bonded (309), setting up a 3 way tie between him, Scorn and agulati. If she's mafia, I certainly don't understand the motivation here. After saying she wants to vote out a newbie, she could have easily put the dagger into Scorn.

- also mentions a possible GGG/HG15 alliance on day 1 (365). It's pretty funny how often that pops up, even early in the game. HG15 doesn't like it all, urging her to focus on the vote leaders (369, 371). Makes sense if he's an Oiler, because a) Puxlut votes for Bonded and he'd need her to switch, and b) she brings up a GGG/HG link.

- votes for crazy_eoj early (41) for no reason at all.

WinnipegFan

- doesn't show up until he already has some votes on him for his inactivity (155) and immediately throws an emotional revenge vote on agulati. It's a pretty clear and early indication that he's town IMO. Remember that Bonded flip Oiler, so if WF is a greaser too then GGG is saddled with 2 rookies. I'd highly doubt he wouldn't try to help them as much as possible, and drawing attention to himself by a) not posting and b) revenge-voting is something I just don't see GGG being too happy with. GGG also immediately calls him out on it (161).

- there's really nothing else. While day 1 gives us a lot of things to look at for every other user, it gives us absolutely nothing about him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DAY 2

Hockeyguy15

- goes after GGG early and votes on him (391-395) as the first one. It's conceivable that he's town and just follows through after the Bonded flip. It's also conceivable that as mafia he throws a vote on him early while GGG tries to implicate others (400), defend himself (402, 410), quote bizaros post about him being town (404).

- reiterates voting for GGG, saying we shouldn't let him off the hook (460). That's the most town post by HG in the whole game IMO, if he's mafia I don't get the motivation here.

Puxlut

- defends herself (401) against HG15s earlier accusations (369).

- bickers against GGG and contemplates a vote on him (439). Also looks at HG still (450).

- says she'd rather be a no-vote than hammer (483).

WinnipegFan

- comes in with a fluff post (421). Puxlut is not impressed (422), GGG calls him out too (424) at which point WF throws another quick revenge-vote at him (432). If he's mafia, this could be a play to have a vote on GGG that he could reference later, but with no other reason than being personal it seems a bit thin in that regard. As most times in WFs early game, it's giving me the impression of an inexperienced townie.

- unvotes after GGGs fake mod reveal (494). Goes back to setting up hammer after Fuzz revealed (506), enabling GGG to kill himself minutes later. Not a good look and certainly the most Oiler moment in WFs game.

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DAY 3

Hockeyguy15

- says the nightkill makes no sense and ties it to a new player (530). Which is a weak argument because even if he's a new player, GGG would have given him his thoughts on who'd be a good target.

- he does something very interesting in 540, which is to recap GGGs game and highlight what he thinks stands out. He finishes the post by suspecting DropIt and Scorn of being Oiler fans on the Bonded vote. Were you afraid that a possible connection to GGG would be brought up again and tried to proactively lead town somewhere else?

- after the GGG stuff he focuses on crazy_eoj most of the day (598, 603, 628, 640). Tells me and Scorn why we could be wrong regarding the timing of crazy_eojs vote on GGG (628). Doesn't vote on him though, only says he'd be fine hammering (686). Ends the day without a vote.

Puxlut

- laments the hammer and nightkill (521).

- goes after mrkajz44, accusing him of flip-flopping and not playing thoroughly (622). Switches to crazy_eoj without really giving an explanation (682).

WinnipegFan

- another quick and personal revenge vote, this time on Scorn (558). Doesn't change his vote.

- says he didn't understand hammer and plays the "you have to be mafia if you look my way" card (574). Another indication to me that he's just a new townie who takes things a bit too personal. Picks a childish fight with Scorn that goes on forever.

[Hockeyguy15]

Some things that stand out on day 1 as I read through.

Puxut votes eoj very early (#41) for his name meaning edmonton oilers joerk, I'm not sure what the point of this vote was. Puxlut makes post #30 saying she is weary of people who cast the first vote (GGG), then eoj makes post #31 saying GGG was eager to point the finger.

Post #111 GGG put's a second vote on Puxlut to up the pressure on her, except it's the first vote on her.

Post #113 Puxlut is almost over the top nice. Generally I remember her getting annoyed when people vote for her for.

Post #156 WinnipegFan revenge vote. If he was getting coached I don't think this is the advice he would get.

Post #164 GGG says puxlut defended him after Seb voted for him. Post #30 she says she is suspicious of the person casting the first vote (GGG), then in post #41 she does defend him.

Post #188 Puxlut removes her vote from eoj saying it was to see what reaction she would get, and it was a revenge vote which isn't strategic for an Oiler. He revenge voted for her on post #118. If the revenge vote was the reasoning for her removing her vote why did it take so long to do that?

Post #191 Devo says he isn't sure about Scornfire or agulati. Bonded then shows up and puts a vote on agulati.

Post #217 Devo votes Scornfire, a gut feeling and for voting after winnipegfan posted and not explaining his vote. Similar to when I mentioned that I was leaving my vote on Scornfire because he didn't explain his vote.

Post #242 Puxlut asks if it's worth while to see who posted later on day 1 because maybe the Oilers were busy chatting in their forum. It's an odd post because she is capable of looking back at that herself (she never does), this could be a way for her to seem helpful without actually doing anything.

Post #309 Puxlut votes Bonded over Scornfire. I'm not sure I understand this move if she is the Oiler. I suppose they could be thinking they could get the vote off Bonded? Devo had just mentioned in post #305 that he might switch to agulati.

Post #342 from puxlut wishes winnipegfan would post more than 2 fluff posts. This is right after the vote is tied with Bonded, could be misdirection? Seems like an odd time to bring up a poster not involved in the running for banning.

Post #363 GGG tries to save Bonded and for some reason picks Puxlut as his target. This really makes no sense to me, he doesn't even give a reason for picking her.

Post #365 still doesn't make sense to me from Puxlut. She also makes no mention of GGG voting for her. She then says her vote is staying on Bonded unless someone can convince her otherwise, she wants people to do the work for her quite a bit.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by devo22

DAY 1

Hockeyguy15

- I've already mentioned the early interactions between GGG and Hockeyguy15. The constant bickering against each other just feels a bit forced and on purpose. GGGs early vote and unvote feels like something they could go back to later to show they aren't aligned. There's also one moment later on when HG15 calls GGG out on missing the Scornfire votes (293).

- HG15 asks very early (58) whether we should give the mod tips who we should investigate. Obviously that could because he's just helpful town, but it could also be because he's concerned that GGG could be investigated early. If conversation goes that way, mafia will want to try to steer the ship into another direction, but the mod talk goes nowhere, interestingly.

- generally strikes a pretty helpful tone, especially towards new players. Either he's super friendly this time or it's just a ploy.

- votes for Scornfire pretty early (90), citing a lack of contribution. Says he's leaving his vote on him because his posts are fluff and there's no explanation for his WF vote (183, 236). It's also pretty interesting that he reiterates that argument late and also calls out Scorn for using "meta" (315). At that point, it's a 3 way tie between Bonded, Scorn and agulati. Maybe another attempt to sink Scorn and save Bonded? Scorn defends himself and accuses HG15 and GGG of working together (318), which HG15 denies while again calling out GGG (325).

I don't know what you mean by constant bickering between GGG and I? He said I was being too helpful. I didn't even engage him. Bonded had selected a random number generator to vote, for fun I did it and it rolled a 2 which happened to be me. I jokingly said I disagreed with it.

GGG jumped on that in post #24 saying anyone using a random generator should be lynched (his buddy Bonded suggested it not me and I said so in post #26). GGG then changes his argument in post #28 saying that I first suggested it was random and that's why Bonded followed up with the number generator. I say in post #29 that day 1 is pretty random reasoning, and I stand by that.

So if I am the Oiler in that sequence of posts GGG has gone after me for suggesting we randomly vote (even though I didn't), even though Bonded brought up the random generator. It looks more like to me that GGG either screwed up and didn't know Bonded suggested the number generator or thought Bonded was going to get some heat on him for his suggestion and tried to make it look like I was the guilty one.

The reason I was defending myself to Scornfire was because to me it felt like he was trying to manufacture a link between GGG and I, I called him out on it because he kept saying me and GGG were doing this and that but never proving anything that I specifically did. I felt it was suspect behaviour.

[devo22]

DAY 4

Hockeyguy15

- discards the nightkill (704) and again floats the idea that the last Oiler voted Bonded and/or is another newbie (706). After re-reading, he argues and votes for DropIt (714). Mentions a possible they/we slip-up (717).

Puxlut

- suspects mrkajz44 and SebC, voting for the latter (722).

WinnipegFan

- goes after Scorn again right off the bat and votes for him (700). Another catfight (708, 710).

- brings up GGG and Scornfire possibly working together, detailing why (719). He's starting to give more reasons for his actions and play more thoroughly.

- yet another emotional revenge vote though, this time on SebC. Says he's drunk (731). Also plays the "you suspect me so you have to be mafia" card again (736).

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DAY 5

Hockeyguy15

- wonders about the nightkills again (773). DropIt says "How has HG not been nightkilled yet?" (earlier than I remembered, I thought this was at the end of the day when DropIt tried to save himself but it's right in the first post of day 5) and HG floats the idea that maybe mafia like his idea about GGG being with 2 new players.

- DropIt reiterates his point, HG15 just points out that the nightkilled users were mostly confirmed or suspected town (793). DropIt says he'd still have expected HG15 being killed instead of agulati, to which HG15 again just points to agulati coming across more Flames than himself (796).

- floats the idea of 2 newbie Oilers again and says he actually wants to vote for DropIt, but goes mrkajz44 instead "so that we meet minimum" (838). Switches to DropIt shortly afterwards, as it gains some traction (846).

- argues against a tie (917, 926). One of those moments where I think he could be Flames after all.

Puxlut

- looks at the day 1 votes again and argues that the Bonded voters are probably town (including herself, which is convenient). Decides to vote mrkajz44 (778). Also thinks the last Oiler might have piled onto GGG (786).

- says she doesn't like the DropIt vote (874) and unvotes. Strong town moment IMO, if she were mafia she could just sit back and watch DropIt die. The "was hoping for a last second pile on someone else" in 881 grinds my gears though.

- says she taps out (891), but votes WF 10 minutes later (896). Probably because of the tie (900)?

- argues against a tie for the sake of a tie and wasn't going to be bullied into a vote. Re-reading this, it neither gives me a strong feeling one way or the other. I could see her being unwilling to be the one who hangs another townie, both from a Flames and an Oiler POV.

WinnipegFan

- defends his GGG vote, suspects DropIt and mrkajz44 (827).

- offers to hammer, gives it an hour (860). Why?

- starts to doubt the DropIt vote and looks at Pux as an alternative (871). Another strong indication that he's town IMO, otherwise he could have just said nothing and let DropIt be lynched.

- forces a tie (893) and says a vote would be beneficial (901, 905, 916, 921). Still suspecting Pux (910) and dares her to vote for herself (925) or break the tie (928, 929). Then dares DropIt to vote for himself (936). A very ugly sequence by WF, but I again think it's down to being inexperienced. Votes Pux in the end (944).

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DAY 6

Hockeyguy15

- mostly defends his passive role in the tie and questions mrkajz44 (983, 992, 998, 1001).

- thinks WF is town (1005). Says his "GGG is with 2 newbies" theory is likely incorrect, dislikes mrkajz44s play in the tie, urges people to re-read (1008). Another post where he gives me a town feeling.

- calls mrkajz44 out for flip-flopping (1034).

- votes Scornfire to avoid a tie and save himself (1073).

Puxlut

- immediately votes for WF (964).

- plays the "I'm stupid" card multiple times within the same post, reiterates her feelings about WF (978). Posts a "how to play scum" link (979).

- offers WF an olive branch to do "something good for the town" (1040). Votes for Scorn (1062). Offers to unvote though because she doesn't want to do a tie again (1068, 1070).

WinnipegFan

- defends his thought process regarding the tie, votes for Pux right out of the gate (966).

- explains his feelings about Pux (1010).

- is willing to change votes late and does so for Scorn (1064).

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by devo22

DAY 3

Hockeyguy15

- says the nightkill makes no sense and ties it to a new player (530). Which is a weak argument because even if he's a new player, GGG would have given him his thoughts on who'd be a good target.

- he does something very interesting in 540, which is to recap GGGs game and highlight what he thinks stands out. He finishes the post by suspecting DropIt and Scorn of being Oiler fans on the Bonded vote. Were you afraid that a possible connection to GGG would be brought up again and tried to proactively lead town somewhere else?

- after the GGG stuff he focuses on crazy_eoj most of the day (598, 603, 628, 640). Tells me and Scorn why we could be wrong regarding the timing of crazy_eojs vote on GGG (628). Doesn't vote on him though, only says he'd be fine hammering (686). Ends the day without a vote.

Puxlut

- laments the hammer and nightkill (521).

- goes after mrkajz44, accusing him of flip-flopping and not playing thoroughly (622). Switches to crazy_eoj without really giving an explanation (682).

WinnipegFan

- another quick and personal revenge vote, this time on Scorn (558). Doesn't change his vote.

- says he didn't understand hammer and plays the "you have to be mafia if you look my way" card (574). Another indication to me that he's just a new townie who takes things a bit too personal. Picks a childish fight with Scorn that goes on forever.

The night kill didn't make sense to me, I expected that Fuzz would be the night kill. If you're the last Oiler left you need people around to hide you, Fuzz would be the only person that you could not use as cover.

No I wasn't afraid of a possible connection with GGG and being brought up, I was looking for the last Oiler.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

I don't know what you mean by constant bickering between GGG and I? He said I was being too helpful. I didn't even engage him. Bonded had selected a random number generator to vote, for fun I did it and it rolled a 2 which happened to be me. I jokingly said I disagreed with it.

GGG jumped on that in post #24 saying anyone using a random generator should be lynched (his buddy Bonded suggested it not me and I said so in post #26). GGG then changes his argument in post #28 saying that I first suggested it was random and that's why Bonded followed up with the number generator. I say in post #29 that day 1 is pretty random reasoning, and I stand by that.

So if I am the Oiler in that sequence of posts GGG has gone after me for suggesting we randomly vote (even though I didn't), even though Bonded brought up the random generator. It looks more like to me that GGG either screwed up and didn't know Bonded suggested the number generator or thought Bonded was going to get some heat on him for his suggestion and tried to make it look like I was the guilty one.

The reason I was defending myself to Scornfire was because to me it felt like he was trying to manufacture a link between GGG and I, I called him out on it because he kept saying me and GGG were doing this and that but never proving anything that I specifically did. I felt it was suspect behaviour.

do you really think that GGG really believed you'd use a random generator for your vote and that's why he threw a vote your way? Come on now you're an experienced player and GGG knows that you wouldn't do that.


GGGs early posts regarding you also don't add up. One the one hand, he accuses you of being way too helpful. One the other hand, he accuses you of enabling RNGs to muddy the water. Which one is it? It just seems he playfully attacked you for the sake of it. And maybe there really is nothing in it, it's just something that struck me odd while re-reading.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by devo22

do you really think that GGG really believed you'd use a random generator for your vote and that's why he threw a vote your way? Come on now you're an experienced player and GGG knows that you wouldn't do that.


GGGs early posts regarding you also don't add up. One the one hand, he accuses you of being way too helpful. One the other hand, he accuses you of enabling RNGs to muddy the water. Which one is it? It just seems he playfully attacked you for the sake of it. And maybe there really is nothing in it, it's just something that struck me odd while re-reading.

GGG made plenty of uncharacteristic mistakes. I'm saying that he made a mistake thinking that I had suggested it, then when I said I didn't and Bonded did that he tried to twist it into I said it was random so Bonded suggested a random generator.

I appreciate devo's summary, but I wanted to also look at devo...
Devo didn't really input anything on the first day that jumps out at me... other than mention ag playing like he did when he was mafia. Day 2 removes his vote because he doesn't want to hammer GGG but then puts it back on him before he goes to sleep. If he wanted to, he could have just left it off and said he was going to sleep and the first vote on GGG would have linked him to saying "HEY! I voted GGG!" Day 3 devo just recaps what happened the day before. Sticks with his #2 suspect and votes eoj.Day 4 mentions trying to weed out Oilers instead of townies. Day 5 starts to focus on mrk but then says he's willing to flip. Then flips to Drop it (with HG). Day 6 votes HG with mrk

After day 6 I had misgivings about letting HG live. I will try and get another read through on WF and HG, but everyone is doing better with their summaries than me.

Right now I would vote HG.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

GGG made plenty of uncharacteristic mistakes.

that much I think we can agree on, yes.

I'll be back later to answer questions and look at stuff, but as for my general feelings after re-reading:

I firmly believe that WinnipegFan is town. I criticized his play more than once and a couple of things really irk me, but in general he gives me a town feel all the way. I just think he had a steep learning curve in this game and needed to find his feet.

Hockeyguy15, I still think there's a really good chance that he's the Oiler. There's been quite a few posts in there that gave me a town feel too and it's made me question some stuff again. But the overall impression I get is still that he's probably the one we're looking for. Re-reading that stuff, I don't think a connection to GGG is far-fetched. The "why hasn't he been nightkilled yet" question also still stands. I have found nothing beyond DropIt raising the question that would lead me to believe that this is a ploy by someone else. HG15 obviously thinks so. But answer me this: if GGG knows that he goes down, who would we want to be nightkilled? It's the confirmed townies, but it's also the strong players. So diss and Fuzz, sure. Would if I were GGG and was saddled with someone else but HG15, I'd want him to go down right after them. And finally there's the day 6 lynch. It's not the biggest argument because it was such a hectic last minute lynch again, but the fact still stands that he killed off a user that he thought was town. mrkajz44s last post gives us this:

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

HG - if you believe Scorn is a Flames fan and so are you, a tie is best

and the answer, if HG is mafia, is pretty simple - Puxlut threatened to unvote if it was going to be a tie. Then HG would have been gone.

And finally there's Puxlut. And while re-reading has, despite all those things I mentioned, softened my stance on HG15 a bit, it has also made me more unsure about Pux. Don't let the number of posts mislead you, there's very little in her posts in comparison to others. In general, I feel she has managed to just float along while avoiding a ton of suspicions. There's strong town moments in there too, but in general I feel that, if she's mafia, she's played a really good game. She's smarter than she lets you believe.