Ridiculous. Work is work... why should someone get paid less for the same job on account of age and why should folk who serve alcohol have a separate minimum wage?
I have to admit that it is kind of funny that he is threatening to reduce the minimum wage of people who can't vote. Don't want to piss off any potential votes I suppose.
Ridiculous. Work is work... why should someone get paid less for the same job on account of age and why should folk who serve alcohol have a separate minimum wage?
I like it. You know how hard it is for a kid to get a part time job out here?
The Following User Says Thank You to stang For This Useful Post:
So they should do it in order to facilitate tax evasion? Call me crazy but I kind of think that the cost of labour should be included in the end-price of goods/services.
Hi Parallex. Let me introduce you to Government work:
You see, Tax Evasion in every Province not named 'Quebec' is a Federal problem. If the Feds are displeased with servers not claiming tips then thats 1023% their problem.
Minimum wage is a Provincial issue.
So if someone wants to 'back-door' their way around Federal Incompetence, and there is lots and lots of that going around lately, this is a great way to do it.
The Feds cant say crap and the people getting screwed have been screwed before so frequently they likely wont even know its happening.
Oh. And nobody cares.
Damn....political analysis is fun! Why have I been belittling people with useless Poli-Sci degrees all this time?
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
I don't have an issue with the lower minimum wage for alcohol servers. Like it or not, tipping is part of our custom at this point so they are making a decent chunk above minimum wage if they are competent and slightly busy. There's definitely other jobs where tipping is the norm, but none so prominent as alcohol servers.
I think the ideal situation would be for servers to make say 12 bucks an hour and force the restaurant to "top-off" so they make at least minimum wage after tips for the shift. So say the shift is 6 hours long and minimum wage is 15 dollars they would be required to make a minimum of 90. They make 72 base (12*6) so if they got at least $18 of tips (all in after tip out etc) that shift then there's no problem. If they make $10 bucks in tips for whatever reason, the company pays the extra 8. This would mean they make at least minimum wage and the company has skin in the game to make sure tipping is being accounted for come tax season otherwise they owe the difference. Logistically it's not quite practical, although it wouldn't be the first time something like that was done.
If you're a 16 or 19 year old who isn't paying rent or supporting a family, it's better to have a low-paying part-time job to earn spending money and gain work experience than have no work at all.
Okey... what about the 19 year old who is paying rent? Or the 19 year old whose parents let them live in their home who works to afford collage tuition (instead of working to afford rent)? Why should a 17 year 9 month get paid less to do the same job as a 18 year 1 month old in the same circumstances (or where-ever they set the "youth" cutoff)?
Work is work. You shouldn't get paid less to do the same job based strictly on age and what you do with the money (be it rent/tuition/spending) should be irrelevant... you get paid for the job you do not for what you do with the money after you earn it.
Obviously it's not always true, but usually a 15-18 year old is during their first job requiring training, probably extra supervision, and even just reliability might not be there (not even for 'poor' employees, but exams and stuff like that require time off). There's also high turnover for teens because they do go to college, or school starts back up in the fall, or they just decide they don't like it. There's also requirements that need to be met for students in terms of how many hours they can work etc.
Work may be work, but people are people and all else equal it's far more likely that an older person would get the same job as a teenager. So equal pay with a high enough minimum wage is setting a higher barrier for teenagers to enter into the workforce. It's a fact, it's just what it is. So it's a question of whether that 'negative' is big enough of a concern for the overall benefit of equal minimum wage.
Okey... what about the 19 year old who is paying rent? Or the 19 year old whose parents let them live in their home who works to afford collage tuition (instead of working to afford rent)? Why should a 17 year 9 month get paid less to do the same job as a 18 year 1 month old in the same circumstances (or where-ever they set the "youth" cutoff)?
Work is work. You shouldn't get paid less to do the same job based strictly on age and what you do with the money (be it rent/tuition/spending) should be irrelevant... you get paid for the job you do not for what you do with the money after you earn it.
Regardless of how you think people should be treated, what actually happens with high minimum wage is youth employment drops dramatically. If you're okay with that trade-off, then fine. Just go in with eyes open. And don't be surprised if Canada winds up like France, where half of 25 year olds have never held any sort of job.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
Employees between 13 and 14 years have the following restrictions on hours of work:
can’t work between 9 pm and 6 am
can't work during school hours, unless they're enrolled in an off-campus education program
can only work up to 2 hours outside of regular school hours, on school days
can work up to 8 hours on non-school days
Employees who are 15 years of age cannot work during regular school hours unless enrolled in an off-campus education program.
Employees 15 to 17 years of age who work in retail or hospitality (as listed below) can only work between 9 p.m. and 12 a.m. with adult supervision. They can't work between 12:01 a.m. and 6 a.m.
The actual requirements. So with only 2 hours of work on school days, it's pretty much pointless to get a 14 year old at the same $15 minimum wage as everyone else.
Even getting a 17 year old who can't take late shifts and close up would be detrimental to restaurants and 24 hour stores like McDonalds.
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parallex
Okey... what about the 19 year old who is paying rent? Or the 19 year old whose parents let them live in their home who works to afford collage tuition (instead of working to afford rent)? Why should a 17 year 9 month get paid less to do the same job as a 18 year 1 month old in the same circumstances (or where-ever they set the "youth" cutoff)?
Work is work. You shouldn't get paid less to do the same job based strictly on age and what you do with the money (be it rent/tuition/spending) should be irrelevant... you get paid for the job you do not for what you do with the money after you earn it.
I guess the flip side of that would be, would you rather have a job that pays 10 bucks an hour over no job at 15 bucks an hour?
Because that is what has happened for many, at least in the serving industry.
The Following User Says Thank You to transplant99 For This Useful Post:
Regardless of how you think people should be treated, what actually happens with high minimum wage is youth employment drops dramatically. If you're okay with that trade-off, then fine. Just go in with eyes open. And don't be surprised if Canada winds up like France, where half of 25 year olds have never held any sort of job.
Agreed. Experience is crucial for kids 15-21 in order to have enough credibility and background for more permanent, long term careers.
All things being equal, an employer is going to opt for someone with less complications (like school, legal guardians/parents, labour laws, etc.) and a more proven track record. If a 15 year old costs the same as a 30 or 60 year old with employment history and references, assuming both have clean criminal records, I'd say its pretty obvious who gets the job.
The government seems to have successfully priced more youth out of employment by raising minimum wage this high without any serious thought to the consequences. This is a logical corrective step that is hardly groundbreaking.
Having a generation where half haven't even had experience flipping a burger at 25 is a pretty disturbing thought.
Last edited by Thunderball; 02-13-2019 at 04:44 PM.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Thunderball For This Useful Post:
I'm not sure paying an 18 year old less than other adults would survive a Charter challenge?
Interesting thought, though I suspect if such a challenge were somehow made, the Government would likely be able to demonstrate that its a reasonable infringement to achieve a reasonable policy objective and benefit, just like its reasonable to set arbitrary ages of entitlement for many other things the government regulates.
Other countries do it, and it seems to work fine, so Iit's not like it is a radical idea. I'm for it.
If it means a restaurant can pay an older more experienced cook more money by paying the younger worker less, it serves to allow the older worker to have a better lifestyle, while the younger one will get there one day. Most companies tend to pay older people more anyway, so this isn't all that different. I think a larger difference between the 2 minimum wages would actually serve society well.
Yeah, I'm not totally sure on the Charter side either, but I don't think it's a slam dunk either way... so it might be worth a kick at the can.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
The government already decided wages will be an arbitrary number they make up regardless of market or skills or value. And they decided employees must be treated differently like not handle a knife or take out the garbage regardlesss of their competency or what the job requires.
If they’re arbitrarily deciding the wages and deciding what people are allowed to do, combining those together doesn’t seem like a stretch.
The Following User Says Thank You to Bend it like Bourgeois For This Useful Post:
What about if businesses could write off the difference between a minimum wage for everybody and the "youth" minimum wage? That way everybody gets the same pay, and businesses get a bit of relief.
I am on the fence with the youth minimum wage to begin with, but there has to be compromise on both sides.
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
Since 2015, restaurants across Alberta have been struggling to survive a perfect storm of tax increases and painful policy changes, against the backdrop of a weak provincial economy. We asked foodservice operators to share their stories about the realities of doing business in Alberta.
What about if businesses could write off the difference between a minimum wage for everybody and the "youth" minimum wage?
Assuming the restaurant is a small business, that write off is worth 2% of the amount written off. Otherwise it's worth 12%. That doesn't really help very much.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
The Following User Says Thank You to CorsiHockeyLeague For This Useful Post:
What about if businesses could write off the difference between a minimum wage for everybody and the "youth" minimum wage? That way everybody gets the same pay, and businesses get a bit of relief.
I am on the fence with the youth minimum wage to begin with, but there has to be compromise on both sides.
Wages are already a write off.
__________________
If you don't pass this sig to ten of your friends, you will become an Oilers fan.
Since 2015, restaurants across Alberta have been struggling to survive a perfect storm of tax increases and painful policy changes, against the backdrop of a weak provincial economy. We asked foodservice operators to share their stories about the realities of doing business in Alberta.
To be honest, our restaurant scene is lacking. How many burgers, breakfast places, pizza joints can a city have before things get outdated and phased out.
Popular restaurants here are still packed and usually have a wait to get in. These restaurants provide a great experience, great food and service.
I think the hard truth is most restaurants don't offer try to half ass most things. Calgary is full of overpriced restaurants with food that is lacking and the experience just isn't great.
Last edited by Otto-matic; 02-14-2019 at 08:42 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Otto-matic For This Useful Post:
