Edmonton is No Good VI: Chia•den•freu•de

[crapshoot]

So they hired a legendary coach to shore things up, and now the players don’t give a crap of what this coach is trying to teach them. Instead the coach is calling out the players after every single game and is starting to take shots against team culture and management. Not even the hired guns in media are complying. Such a clown show, but does the OBC even understand what is going on?

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

This is weird - here we go, Go Oilers.

We need San Jose to lose tonight - get a points cushion for the Flames.

No, you're doing it wrong. The cheer should be: Down Sharks!!! clap clap clap...Down Sharks!!!


NEVER cheer for the Oilers no matter what!!!

[browna]

Originally Posted by crapshoot

So they hired a legendary coach to shore things up, and now the players don’t give a crap of what this coach is trying to teach them. Instead the coach is calling out the players after every single game and is starting to take shots against team culture and management. Not even the hired guns in media are complying. Such a clown show, but does the OBC even understand what is going on?

And, there was a couple times in McLellan’s first two seasons where he was steamed at this same thing. His comments didn’t go as far as Hitchcock’s in public, but it was the exact same thing about guys not committed and a poor attitude, players and organizationaly.

He wanted to trade a bunch of guys because of that attitude, but couldn’t. Only one they got rid of was Hall because Larsson didn’t have to waive.

These guys don’t come out of junior, or even from other NHL teams with this attitude. It’s the lack of organizational structure that Lowe has instilled for last 2 decades, one where he is assuming top junior kids like 1981, can come in and assume their skill dominate the NHL too, and be given a pep talk as the sole means of motivation them, instead of a development plan or constant coaching.

By year two or three when they float around aimlessly but still get lauded by the management, because of their talent and potential out of junior, the motivation to do the extra work is gone, nevermind they all know the crappy situation and turnstyle of coaches and GMs and internal drama is distracting them even if they were focused. And Hall was as bad for that as any others, look at the way he disrespected Eakins...basically you end up with the young inmates running the asylum. Not out of spite, but out of the fact that they can’t do wrong and are counted on by Lowe and Katz and Lowe and Katz tell them that, so they feel invincible and are told by the management thst things will get better and sort themselves out on their own...or with a new coach, or a new GM, or if they get player x and y to come next summer or in a trade, and then all will be fine. McLellan found that sort of attitude out and so has Hitchcock.

Management is focused to over paying players and trying to keep the young guys happy and their agents to have their client stay, so handling them differently then the rest of the team, means any strong leadership doesn’t arrive or stay is because no one wants to go there due to them have to deal with the bulletproof young guys who get pats on the back from guys like Lowe for failure (see Ferences comments earlier this season) .It snowballs and snowballs each season until the coaches or GMs get punted for lack of team success.

It’s absolutey glorious and isn’t changing anytime soon now thst Lowe is back pulling the strings again.

[dirk diggler]

Todd M must be laughing watching the great Hitchcock with no answers for this team of losers. Watch McDavid and Draisital coast around and give no effort on the back check is fantastic to see. they get a pass as they are the only 2 decent players but they shouldnt.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by browna

And, there was a couple times in McLellan’s first two seasons where he was steamed at this same thing. His comments didn’t go as far as Hitchcock’s in public, but it was the exact same thing about guys not committed and a poor attitude, players and organizationaly.

He wanted to trade a bunch of guys because of that attitude, but couldn’t. Only one they got rid of was Hall because Larsson didn’t have to waive.

These guys don’t come out of junior, or even from other NHL teams with this attitude. It’s the lack of organizational structure that Lowe has instilled for last 2 decades, one where he is assuming top junior kids like 1981, can come in and assume their skill dominate the NHL too, and be given a pep talk as the sole means of motivation them, instead of a development plan or constant coaching.

By year two or three when they float around aimlessly but still get lauded by the management, because of their talent and potential out of junior, the motivation to do the extra work is gone, nevermind they all know the crappy situation and turnstyle of coaches and GMs and internal drama is distracting them even if they were focused. And Hall was as bad for that as any others, look at the way he disrespected Eakins...basically you end up with the young inmates running the asylum. Not out of spite, but out of the fact that they can’t do wrong and are counted on by Lowe and Katz and Lowe and Katz tell them that, so they feel invincible and are told by the management thst things will get better and sort themselves out on their own...or with a new coach, or a new GM, or if they get player x and y to come next summer or in a trade, and then all will be fine. McLellan found that sort of attitude out and so has Hitchcock.

Management is focused to over paying players and trying to keep the young guys happy and their agents to have their client stay, so handling them differently then the rest of the team, means any strong leadership doesn’t arrive or stay is because no one wants to go there due to them have to deal with the bulletproof young guys who get pats on the back from guys like Lowe for failure (see Ferences comments earlier this season) .It snowballs and snowballs each season until the coaches or GMs get punted for lack of team success.

It’s absolutey glorious and isn’t changing anytime soon now thst Lowe is back pulling the strings again.

Shhhhh....

Don’t give them any help

[Jimdon]

The coaches cant want it more than the team...


You're telling me that elite athletes that devoted their entire lives to becoming professional hockey players suddenly don't want to win anymore?

[crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

The coaches cant want it more than the team...


You're telling me that elite athletes that devoted their entire lives to becoming professional hockey players suddenly don't want to win anymore?

As weird as it sounds it apparantly has something to do with the water.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

Todd M must be laughing watching the great Hitchcock with no answers for this team of losers. Watch McDavid and Draisital coast around and give no effort on the back check is fantastic to see. they get a pass as they are the only 2 decent players but they shouldnt.

I have to say, the concept of leaving a job because "that place would be worse without you" is usually flawed, but if I were T-Mac I'd be laughing my ass off while I cashed my Oilers paycheques.

I'd follow them on road trips and watch every game.

[Heavy Jack]

Wrong thread

[troutman]

Lost to San Jose 2-5, playoff odds down 4.9 to 5%

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NHL/W.../Edmonton.html

[spuzzum]

Edmonton is in such a terrible shape that a smart GM would trade Mcjesus and get similar returns to Lindros or Gretzky.

As part of the trade, Lucic must also packaged. They'd still have Drai to build a foundation around plus part of the return. Philadelphia would be an ideal trading partner.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm going to say the same thing that I said on that other forum.


Tom Renney complained that the Oilers were playing for themselves, and took too many nights off


Dallas Eakins complained that the Oilers were taking too many nights off.


T-Mac complained that the players took too many nights off



Hitch complained that the Oilers are taking nights off, and their priorities are wrong.


So blame the Old Boys Club, they need to be blamed.


Blame Chia he needs to be blamed.


You can blame a successive line of coaches.


But this team has either never picked guys with leadership qualities, or have failed to develop them.


No tapping a player on the shoulder and whispering lets go is not leadership.


Now to add on.


Connor McDavid is tremendously lazy without the puck, there are too many instances of fly bys or coasting and not picking up his man on defense.


There are too many instances of Draisaitl being incredibly lazy without the puck.


A leader can't just play one part of the game at the sacrifice of the other parts of his game.


When you look at this team and watch it play, it looks like everyone but a few players have a sense that Connor will carry us so why should we work hard.


There's literally no accountability, and the worst thing was operation get Connor some trophies last year did more harm then good.


This isn't just a badly built team, but its a team that feels rotten in the locker room.


They need to do the one thing that they can't do and that's move McDavid and get the 4 or 5 piece that could probably change the culture in the room.


Now the problem is this, Hitch is likely not interested in coming back. He looked absolutely disgusted with his team last night.


They need a new GM


They aren't going to get a new GM as long as there's a stink of OBC.


A new coach isn't going to go to a team that kills coaches and checks out.


The change has to happen right at the top, but I doubt that Katz will do that unless renewals go through the floor.


This team needs a rebuild like we've never seen before.

[Red]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

Edmonton is in such a terrible shape that a smart GM would trade Mcjesus and get similar returns to Lindros or Gretzky.

As part of the trade, Lucic must also packaged. They'd still have Drai to build a foundation around plus part of the return. Philadelphia would be an ideal trading partner.

There is no playoff team that can fit McJesus under the cap
without gutting their roster. Counter productive.

The return would be no where close to the Lindros trade.

And building around Drai would be foolish. Lazy player not interested in the puck unless in the offensive zone.

[Red]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm going to say the same thing that I said on that other forum.


Tom Renney complained that the Oilers were playing for themselves, and took too many nights off


Dallas Eakins complained that the Oilers were taking too many nights off.


T-Mac complained that the players took too many nights off



Hitch complained that the Oilers are taking nights off, and their priorities are wrong.


So blame the Old Boys Club, they need to be blamed.


Blame Chia he needs to be blamed.


You can blame a successive line of coaches.


But this team has either never picked guys with leadership qualities, or have failed to develop them.


No tapping a player on the shoulder and whispering lets go is not leadership.


Now to add on.


Connor McDavid is tremendously lazy without the puck, there are too many instances of fly bys or coasting and not picking up his man on defense.


There are too many instances of Draisaitl being incredibly lazy without the puck.


A leader can't just play one part of the game at the sacrifice of the other parts of his game.


When you look at this team and watch it play, it looks like everyone but a few players have a sense that Connor will carry us so why should we work hard.


There's literally no accountability, and the worst thing was operation get Connor some trophies last year did more harm then good.


This isn't just a badly built team, but its a team that feels rotten in the locker room.


They need to do the one thing that they can't do and that's move McDavid and get the 4 or 5 piece that could probably change the culture in the room.


Now the problem is this, Hitch is likely not interested in coming back. He looked absolutely disgusted with his team last night.


They need a new GM


They aren't going to get a new GM as long as there's a stink of OBC.


A new coach isn't going to go to a team that kills coaches and checks out.


The change has to happen right at the top, but I doubt that Katz will do that unless renewals go through the floor.


This team needs a rebuild like we've never seen before.

McDavid and Drai were put above the team when Hitch gave them a day off from practice. For no reason at all.
Why would anyone bust their humps in that scenario. Hitch made it clear who the favourites were. And then you have both McD and Drai playing only to pad their stats. They only skate hard in one direction.
That team needs a massive makeover. It should start with making the stars accountable.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Red

McDavid and Drai were put above the team when Hitch gave them a day off from practice. For no reason at all.
Why would anyone bust their humps in that scenario. Hitch made it clear who the favourites were. And then you have both McD and Drai playing only to pad their stats. They only skate hard in one direction.
That team needs a massive makeover. It should start with making the stars accountable.

It goes further then that. Giving McDavid 25 minutes a night sends a message to the rest of the bench that all of you guys are trash that can't be trusted.

McDavid and his flybys and lazy defensive retreats never getting called out makes him appear to be above the system

Spending half the season last year with operation get Connor the puck will resonate through any locker room, I've seen it as a coach. Players will check out.

[oldschoolcalgary]

not surprised at all that they tuned Hitchcock out...

he's a hard nosed, demanding coach that wants the players to be defensively responsible...i don't think that team would want to play that kind of game...

after his introductory press conference though, its kinda funny to see how defeated he is now

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

The coaches cant want it more than the team...


You're telling me that elite athletes that devoted their entire lives to becoming professional hockey players suddenly don't want to win anymore?

Of course they want to win, everyone does, but thats not what Hitch is talking about.

It's all about what are you willing to do to win. Are you willing to sacrifice your body to block shots, or suffer on your offensive numbers to play the right way defensively, or make sure you are where you need to be in your own end (Hello Leon) after turnovers/mistakes have been made.

That "team" up North shows very little of this type of commitment. They have a "play for themselves instead of each other" mentality and have had for years and years.

They are so far into the abyss its hard for any of them to see a way out IMO which just leads to even more "playing for me" mentality and it starts with the leadership group...though Im not sure they really have one on that club.

You can see it written all over Hitchcocks face that he has implored that group over and over and over on how they need to play to start to climb their way out, but it simply isnt landing with them, so its play well one game/feel good/back to bad habits/lose a bunch/play well one game. Draft new saviour........rinse and repeat year after year.

It comes down to ONE GUY who has been there for all of it. But they refuse to move on from him.

Good for us, as it provides comic relief for myself and all Flames fans but for those who have an affinity for the Oilers? Its just sad and mind boggling. I dont feel sorry for them but I certainly have empathy as they see the same movie directed and played out over and over and over but the ending is never re-written.

[Erick Estrada]

Man it's becoming a real possibility that Hughes could be an Oiler. You have to wonder when it gets to the point where these guys start pulling a Lindros and say they won't play for an organization if drafted.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Red

There is no playoff team that can fit McJesus under the cap
without gutting their roster. Counter productive.

The return would be no where close to the Lindros trade.

And building around Drai would be foolish. Lazy player not interested in the puck unless in the offensive zone.

It would make more sense for a rebuilding team, I would think.

Maybe a team like LA.

They look at it and say: we rebuild around McDavid and Doughty.
1) trade any and every young prospect they have, to get McDavid, including this year's lottery pick.
2) gut the roster - trade every decent asset: Carter, Toffoli, Kovalchuk, Quick. Everybody except Kopitar, for picks and prospects (to replace what they gave Edmonton)
3) keep Kopitar for 1 season to mentor McDavid
4) trade for roster-dumps (like Lucuc) to make the floor and acquire more picks
5) trade Kopitar the following year for another bushel of picks and prospects

Building around McDavid and Doughty, they should be able to be competitive again pretty quickly. And, like with Gretzky, they would have the best player in the world to market.

It would be really cool if history repeated itself in this way.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Red

There is no playoff team that can fit McJesus under the cap
without gutting their roster. Counter productive.

The return would be no where close to the Lindros trade.

And building around Drai would be foolish. Lazy player not interested in the puck unless in the offensive zone.

The Lindros or Gretzky deals are nearly impossible to pull off now. It's nearly impossible to offload a star players contract and throw in another contract in a deal without taking back two bad contacts back as collateral damage. See Ottawa trying to get Bobby Ryan in a Karlsson deal.

The Oilers might get a young potential top 6 player, 2 firsts, another 2nd, another lower pick and a contract back for McDavid if they were to trade him. 2 pieces to put in the lineup today and maybe save 5 million in cap.

The fan base would revolt. Even if it did ultimately result in the team being better 3 years down the road. They can't sell another rebuild. Even the people in Edmonton won't buy a 5th version of a rebuild.

This looks good on Katz.