2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[LWcrowfoot]

It's incredibly tight. Would love to see a 23 man roster breakdown by TheScorpion with appropriate cap hits. He brushed off my assertion that it'd be difficult to sign Stone with the Flames cap as it stand saying I don't want to add good players, not true I'm just pragmatic about the cap. He replied that Phil Kessel played third line with the Penguins but failed to notice that Phil still played top unit PP while Stone would drop one of out PPG players off the top unit.

I'm still flabbergasted at this

Also -- why is Stone a monster where Lindholm isn't? Well, Stone is at a 12.1 relative Corsi on the Senators. Without him, that team is one of the worst teams ever (2016-17 Avalanche levels of bad), and with him, they play at a middle-of-the-pack level. Lindholm was never able to drive play in Carolina the same way that Stone is able to in Ottawa. The Flames acquired Lindholm with the idea that he'd "pop," but Stone doesn't need to do that.

Of course the Senators are worse when Stone is off the ice, they don't have much else besides him and Duchene. The Flames have a plethora of options so it's not such a negative when one of Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk or Lindholm are off the ice. Beyond that I've got little desire to debate corsi.

Also what Lindholm did it Carolina or what his expectations were when he arrived in Calgary have nothing to do with anything. We're talking about the player Elias is now. Yes he's got lots to work with in Calgary but Stone has Duchene, another elite player, on his line. And Elias has been a beast/warrior/star since arriving at both ends of the ice. Lindholm plays the most time on our PK for forwards, leading the next guy (Jankowski) by almost 30 seconds. He's been a monster this season.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Mark Stone is an unrestricted free-agent who will be fielding offers from well over a dozen teams. Matthew Tkachuk is a restricted free-agent who can only negotiate with Calgary, save for very, very rare exceptions. Tkachuk's leverage is significantly lower. Also, Stone has been consistently elite for much longer than Tkachuk, who is in the midst of his first 50-point season in the NHL. Stone is also currently being courted by a hilariously desperate Senators team, centralizing even more leverage upon his shoulders.

And if your Matthew do you take 1.5-2M less per season x 6-8 years to the tune of 9-16M over the course of your contract just so Calgary can also sign Mark Stone and have him be the highest paid player on the Flames?

It just doesn't make sense, not for Matthew and not for the Flames. Keith wasnt exactly a pushover with contracts, why are we assuming Matthew will be because he's an RFA? his intangibles alone make him worth more than Stone in my mind.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Not really.

$9 million can be divvied up like so, I think reasonably:

$5 million total for Bennett and Rittich
$1 million for Hathaway
$1 million for a backup
$700k for Mangiapane

That leaves $1.3 million, plenty of wiggle room. The figure of $17 million in cap space already accounted for 7 defensemen on the roster next year (including Kylington and Valimaki). Mangiapane hasn't done anything to warrant a raise. And this is all assuming that Tkachuk gets $8 million, which is probably a fair bit higher than he'll actually get.

Good luck with the bolded. I would agree thats where it should be but the way the league is now, Bennett will get over 3 million alone and Rittich has some leverage in his negs being that the Flames have no other options at this point. It will be over 6 between them im guessing.

Also Mangiapane gets an automatic raise albeit very slight.

Hathaway is probably going to want more than that as well being he has become a big part of the PK as well as playing the tough guy role most nights.

The backup is an interesting one. People are clamoring, right now, for a different backup in case Rittich gets hurt...yadda yadda...and next year i suspect expectations for the team will be even bigger than now but somehow we wont want a better backup than a million bucks buys?

Its really not much room as it stands. Now there is no question in my mind that things will change at the draft for this club, because thats what BT does.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Royle9

And if your Matthew do you take 1.5-2M less per season x 6-8 years to the tune of 8-12 mil over the course of your contract just so Calgary can also sign Mark Stone and have him be the highest paid player on the Flames?

It just doesn't make sense, not for Matthew and not for the Flames. Keith wasnt exactly a pushover with contracts, why are we assuming Matthew will be because he's an RFA? his intangibles alone make him worth more than Stone in my mind.

Not saying I agree completely with Scorpion, but to compare an U.F.A. and a R.F.A. is being unrealistic.

Matthew can be firm and stand his ground.

He can also be forced to sit out as long as Nylander did in the process.

It's all about leverage, Tkachuk doesn't have any.

He isn't comparable to the Stone contract.

[TheScorpion]

For the record, I think Frolik is dealt in the offseason either way, Stone or not. Just makes sense from an asset-management standpoint.

[LWcrowfoot]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Mark Stone is an unrestricted free-agent who will be fielding offers from well over a dozen teams. Matthew Tkachuk is a restricted free-agent who can only negotiate with Calgary, save for very, very rare exceptions. Tkachuk's leverage is significantly lowerwho is in the midst of his first 50-point season in the NHL. Stone is also currently being courted by a hilariously desperate Senators team, centralizing even more leverage upon his shoulders.

You're 100% right UFA vs RFA but Tkachuk can negotiate with 30 other NHL teams if he wishes. Now if those teams give him an offer sheer, if he signs one.. that's totally different But he's free to negotiate.

Also you might as well throw that line away of "Tkachuk in midst of his first 50 point season." You've dropped it several times to dismiss his point total in this debate and it's a little tiring.

Tkachuk is currently sitting at 57 points, in midst of his first 30 goal 80 point season. Both those total are lower than his on pace ones. The guy is going to he paid. RFA status plays a part but not as big of one nowadays.

Also, Stone has been consistently elite for much longer than Tkachuk,

Maybe that's because this is Tkachuk's third NHL season..?

Besides that little hiccup Stone's only been truly elite last season and this one. His best season prior was 64 points in 2015. Sean Monahan had 62 points that year with a consistent point total every season since and you list him as a tier two forward on the Flames, not elite.

[LWcrowfoot]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The backup is an interesting one. People are clamoring, right now, for a different backup in case Rittich gets hurt...yadda yadda...and next year i suspect expectations for the team will be even bigger than now but somehow we wont want a better backup than a million bucks buys?

This is a good point. Flames should be looking for a 1B option behind Rittich not a cheapo backup. Looking at a guy in the 2-2.5 million range makes sense.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Not saying I agree completely with Scorpion, but to compare an U.F.A. and a R.F.A. is being unrealistic.

Matthew can be firm and stand his ground.

He can also be forced to sit out as long as Nylander did in the process.

It's all about leverage, Tkachuk doesn't have any.

He isn't comparable to the Stone contract.

Unless he signs an offer sheet.

Now, they rarely work for a variety of reasons, but there has never been an RFA crop like we will see this summer and i expect that we see a coule of them this time around.

MT would certainly be among those being looked at for one....whether or not he gets one or signs it is another thing.

[agulati]

There seems to be a belief among media personnel (Friedman etc) that this might be a year we see some offer sheets. That increases the pressure on Treliving to get this done sooner rather than later.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by agulati

There seems to be a belief among media personnel (Friedman etc) that this might be a year we see some offer sheets. That increases the pressure on Treliving to get this done sooner rather than later.

If someone wants to offer sheet him some stupid money I will take the four first round picks.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

If someone wants to offer sheet him some stupid money I will take the four first round picks.

And if none of those 4 are lottery... you never replace Tkachuk

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

For the record, I think Frolik is dealt in the offseason either way, Stone or not. Just makes sense from an asset-management standpoint.

And from a "does he want to be here" standpoint. Frolik has been unhappy. Stone actively wanted to be in Calgary.

[Split98]

^ For that reason alone, I hope to see his name at the deadline. If the Flames have a fun post-season this year, I hope it's with players who rolled with the winning formula.

[Shazam]

I've always wondered something about offer sheets. We only know about the ones that the players signs, but the ones that they don't, those aren't public knowledge, are they? So there could be many offer sheets tendered every year.

[The Yen Man]

For realistic offer sheets that you're hoping to work, I'm guessing teams would target Pointe in Tampa and one of Marner / Matthews in Toronto to first, since those two teams have way more pressing cap issues than the Flames do, and will be tougher for them to match.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by agulati

There seems to be a belief among media personnel (Friedman etc) that this might be a year we see some offer sheets. That increases the pressure on Treliving to get this done sooner rather than later.

Right but I have no doubt that Don Meehan won't allow any decisions on MT until at least the Matthews deal and probably one of Marner or Point have established the market.

[Vinny01]

Honestly we should be more worried about losing a Rittichih or Bennett to an offer sheet than Tkachuk. Tkachuk is one of our franchise players and the Flames simply won’t lose him and likely match anything.

A team could look at Bennett and see a potential first line player in a new situation and offer him $5M per which would be tough for the Flames to match. The same with Rittich maybe he gets 6x6 similar to Hellybuxk and that would put the Flames in a tougher spot to match.

I don’t see a team offering Tkachuk more than $11M per and it thick the Flames match anything less than the 4 1sts.


The same with other teams with multiple high end RFA’s. The Jets should be more worried about Connor or Trouba than Laine.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I've always wondered something about offer sheets. We only know about the ones that the players signs, but the ones that they don't, those aren't public knowledge, are they? So there could be many offer sheets tendered every year.

Pretty much yes...though again there just aren't that many actually offered unless the offering team has a real good idea they have a chance it will be signed.

If you are going to try and poach a fellow GM's player, you usually let them know ahead of time and you don't want a bridge burned for no reason.

[howard_the_duck]

I love MT, but if Meehan is leveraging Marner/Point territory I really struggle with it.

Anything north of $7.5-8 is paying for more than he can bring in today's game, IMO. Beyond that territory it handcuffs the roster too much.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Honestly we should be more worried about losing a Rittichih or Bennett to an offer sheet than Tkachuk. Tkachuk is one of our franchise players and the Flames simply won’t lose him and likely match anything.

A team could look at Bennett and see a potential first line player in a new situation and offer him $5M per which would be tough for the Flames to match. The same with Rittich maybe he gets 6x6 similar to Hellybuxk and that would put the Flames in a tougher spot to match.

I don’t see a team offering Tkachuk more than $11M per and it thick the Flames match anything less than the 4 1sts.


The same with other teams with multiple high end RFA’s. The Jets should be more worried about Connor or Trouba than Laine.

Seriously?

He hasnt even played a full season in the NHL.

No GM is going to tie their wagon to him for 6 years at big money.

Its not a worry whatsoever.

And if someone wants to give Bennett 5 million....see ya later Sam.