Mike Smith's... woes? He blows? Eating crows? Who knows! (Also David Rittich exists!)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

This sounds like a compelling argument for having a competent and trustworthy backup who can spell your starter...which the Flames do not have. So now for both short and long term it appears quite important that they upgrade the position.

With who and for how much?

[jayswin]

My favourite thing about a Smith start is that we're as far away as possible from the next Smith start. There's nothing more deflating than being excited on game day and then seeing Smith announced as starter.

[Roof-Daddy]

Anything can happen I guess, but we should probably resign ourselves to the likelihood that Smith is the back up for the remainder of the season.

Hopefully Rittich can stay healthy and not falter.

[jayswin]

I think when you have this great a chance at a Cup run you have to shore up the back up position.

I understand the position of most in here "It's not worth shoring up/other contenders have poor back ups/he's done after this season anyway", but to me it comes down to this:

Can we go on a cup run if Rittich goes down and Smith takes over? Not likely. Can we still possibly compete in the playoffs with a run with a decent back up and a Rittich injury? Probably. Pay for a decent back up, spend what you would have on defensive depth, imo.

[jayswin]

This is a special year, I don't buy what a lot of Flames fans are selling - That this is the new norm and we'll definitely have more cracks just like this season. We'll be good for sure, but it's not guaranteed at all that we'll be like this, we have A LOT going right for us this season.

You push some chips in this year and a decent back up is absolutely where I'm putting some chips or this season could easily be lost with one injury.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by jayswin

This is a special year, I don't buy what a lot of Flames fans are selling - That this is the new norm and we'll definitely have more cracks just like this season. We'll be good for sure, but it's not guaranteed at all that we'll be like this, we have A LOT going right for us this season.

You push some chips in this year and a decent back up is absolutely where I'm putting some chips or this season could easily be lost with one injury.

Personally if I am pushing chips I want one more winger before I add a goalie.

There are injuries that I don’t believe we can mitigate even with trades if the cup is our goal. Rittich is one of them, Gio is one, and any member of the top line. I don’t think spending assets for inferior replicas in these spots makes sense.

If we do spend I want to upgrade the third line or an extra D to keep Prout out of the line up. In my opinion injuries at these positions is far more common then the goalie injury and have ready outside of the top lines.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by jayswin

This is a special year, I don't buy what a lot of Flames fans are selling - That this is the new norm and we'll definitely have more cracks just like this season. We'll be good for sure, but it's not guaranteed at all that we'll be like this, we have A LOT going right for us this season.

You push some chips in this year and a decent back up is absolutely where I'm putting some chips or this season could easily be lost with one injury.

As nice as it would be to get a better backup, I'm going to keep making these three arguments against it:

1) a cheap backup is not going to save us in the postseason. If Rittich goes down we're done anyway.

2) a backup is likely to play zero games in the playoffs, thus wasting any resources we spent on him.

3) any resources spent on a 1b option could alternatively be spent upgrading parts of the lineup that actually play in the playoff.


With these arguments I'm having trouble justifying getting a different backup this late in the season. I agree with those who argue that a few points in the standings could make a big difference in playoff matchups, but still. The time to get rid of Smith has IMO passed.

If the plan is to go all the way, which really has to be the only plan at this point, then I would focus on having the best possible playoff lineup with the assumption that Rittich is the starter.

Or to put more or less the same argument a different way:

Only two teams won playoff games with two different goalies last season (COL and PHI), and neither won a series.

In the playoffs, you win with your best goalie or not at all.

Also, worrying about a possible injury to Rittich specifically is kind of pointless. If any of Monahan, Gaudreau, or Giordano go down, our cup chances are just as done.

Even with just Harmonic down our defense suddenly looks a lot weaker. Rittich isn't the only irreplaceable part on the team.

[Fuzz]

Has Rittich proven he is a true #1 though? What if he turns out to be just a good backup? I know finding goalies is hard, but if the opportunity came to spend cash to get a true, proven #1 Surly that's more important than a backup winger, no?


I do agree we there probably isn't much point for a lateral move from Smith to another backup at sixths point.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Has Rittich proven he is a true #1 though? What if he turns out to be just a good backup? I know finding goalies is hard, but if the opportunity came to spend cash to get a true, proven #1 Surly that's more important than a backup winger, no?

A true #1 starter costs you more than a backup winger. Also, "proven starters" falter all the time. Also, are Monahan and Gaudreau proven playoff performers? Is Lindholm? Is Tkachuk? Do you acquire players to replace them too, just in case?

You can't have contingency plans for everything. I think we're at a point where we need to roll the dice with Rittich. And frankly I'd rather see them roll the dice with this roster in general than spend any more of our future.

Like Conroy said, we need to see what we have here.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah this isn't the thing to focus on.

He's a backup on an expiring contract and the team has a healthy lead in the division. Don't waste your assets on an insurance policy.

Is it a waste though? Depth is critical in the playoffs and at the moment the Calgary Flames are a pretty deep team everywhere except in net.

If something, anything, happens to Rittich and we have to ride Smith its going to be the Idiot Gulutzan/Brian Elliott 'Game 4 fiasco' all over again.

Originally Posted by jayswin

I think when you have this great a chance at a Cup run you have to shore up the back up position.

I understand the position of most in here "It's not worth shoring up/other contenders have poor back ups/he's done after this season anyway", but to me it comes down to this:

Can we go on a cup run if Rittich goes down and Smith takes over? Not likely. Can we still possibly compete in the playoffs with a run with a decent back up and a Rittich injury? Probably. Pay for a decent back up, spend what you would have on defensive depth, imo.

Yeah, this. And for more than a few reasons.

The fact of the matter is that some may shrug at the prospect of goaltending depth or think that if push were to come to shove that Smith could shoulder the load should something happen to Rittich.

But thats just not the case unless we somehow draw the Arizona Coyotes in the playoffs.

The playoffs are tight, you cant hope and pray that the team can score 5 or 6 goals per game to off-set Smith's muffins and flush an otherwise exceptional season down the crapper.

[Shazam]

How’s Smith doing recently? Is he still the worst goaltender in the league that’s played a meaningful number of games?

[activeStick]

What's the average number of games played in the playoffs by a goalie that wins the cup? Maybe 6 games per series, which comes to 24 games over a span of maybe low 50s in days? The narrative on one side, would mean that those that preach rest, also shouldn't want the number one guy getting the start in every game of the playoffs.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Shazam

How’s Smith doing recently? Is he still the worst goaltender in the league that’s played a meaningful number of games?

I think he's gone from literally the worst to among the worst 3.

[TheSquatch]

3.08 and a .889 right now for Smith.

2.49 and a .918 right now for Rittich.

And visually, forget the stats, just visually, watch a game and tell me which one is your starter. Rittich is calm, positionally strong, and when he gives up a bad goal it's by being aggressive (misplaying the puck a few times, for example). Smith is deep in the net, he's all over the place physically after making a save, and we have... 1 game...arguably, where he didn't let in a total junker, one of those ones where the puck just goes right through him.

The team plays totally different in front of Rittich because he doesn't blow one on a nightly basis. (I think arguably we have seen Rittich's weakness exposed - that he is down early and stays there, pads on the ice and feet on the posts, and that leaves the top of the net open. But even there, if the argument is "This goaltender's weakness is that he can be beaten by perfect, difficult, shoulder-high shots." then we are talking about a pretty good goaltender.) Smith's weakness is that it looks like any shot he faces could go in. You could not, for example, look at highlights of this year's Mike Smith and say as the puck is leaving the shooter's stick "This is likely a goal" or "This is likely saved" with any real accuracy.

His play is poor, and has stayed poor. His attitude early in the season was frustrating to watch (seemingly of the "Well I did all I could" school). The only thing I like about Smith at this point, and it may be a little compelling, is that he and Rittich seem to have a friendly relationship, and maybe there is some useful mentoring going on. That's the only reason I'd not fire him into the sun at this point.

All this said, I agree with posters who are saying that having a better backup is basically meaningless in the playoffs. We aren't winning the cup with MacIlhenny or any of these kind of guys in the pipes. We saw the Flyers get owned a few years back when they got to the final without a proper goalie. So it's Big Save Dave here, right here, right now, and yeah, he's our only hope. Is he the long term answer? I hope so, it's looking good, and clearly the team loves him. But right now, this year.... it's BSD or bust. We can afford to go .300 in games we give Smith... what, 10 more starts? And then he rides the pine for the playoffs, essentially.

[Wolfman]

Smith is officially the worst with decent games played


http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?repo...&sort=savePctg

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by activeStick

What's the average number of games played in the playoffs by a goalie that wins the cup? Maybe 6 games per series, which comes to 24 games over a span of maybe low 50s in days? The narrative on one side, would mean that those that preach rest, also shouldn't want the number one guy getting the start in every game of the playoffs.

You're being silly.
You want your starter to get rest during the regular season so that he is not burned out for the playoffs.

No goalie has won the Stanley Cup after playing more than 60 games in the regular season since Marc-Andre Fleury played 62 with the Pittsburgh Penguins in 2009.

The average number of regular-season games for Cup-winning goalies since then is 44, though that includes Matt Murray playing 13 NHL games in 2016 and not the 31 games he played in the American Hockey League before winning the Cup for the first time as a late-season call up in Pittsburgh.

Washington Capitals No. 1 Braden Holtby played 54 games last season and won the Cup after averaging 67 starts the previous three seasons and failing to get past the second round.

https://www.nhl.com/news/unmasked-id...ms/c-303785014

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

You're being silly.
You want your starter to get rest during the regular season so that he is not burned out for the playoffs.

Old wives tale.

https://www.fearthefin.com/2013/10/3...rnout-playoffs

Number of games played in regular season doesn’t appear to have a statistically significant impact on playoff performance.

[EldrickOnIce]

I'm not so sure... ^

More from the article above

Since Brodeur won the 2003 Stanley Cup after playing 73 games for the New Jersey Devils, the average number of regular season starts for the Cup-winning goalie is 46.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Smith is officially the worst with decent games played


http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?repo...&sort=savePctg

But I hear he's been visually better lately.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I'm not so sure... ^

More from the article above

There would be a lot of noise in those stats as well, given the differences in teams outside of goalies.

A bigger question would be how many teams that overplayed a number one goalie in the regular season made it out of the first couple rounds. Kipper sure looked tired sometimes. But he was on teams that ranged from slightly above average to bad.