2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

Kempny? Seidenberg? Boychuk? Orlov? Dumoulin? Mitchell?

There is nothing suffocatingly good about these players.

Right?

Take Brodie out next year and we still have

Giordano
Hanifin
Hamonic
Andersson
Valimaki
Kylington
Stone

[transplant99]

So if I am understanding things here...

Stone is a top 15 forward in the entire league and 26 years old

We can acquire said player for a late 1st, Dube and Kylington who have a combined 51 games of NHL experience?

We can then sign him to an 8 million dollar AAV, even though he has been offered at least if not more than that from Ottawa all the while we still get raises to Tkachuk, Rittich, and Bennett and (I assume keep his brother or does that not matter now) yet still be cap compliant?

He will then play on the 2nd line with Tkachuk and Backlund while being the highest paid player on the squad and watch the top line get the most minutes?

All that AND they upgrade the goaltending, bring in at least one depth dman and whatever else needs some shoring up?



Yeah, that sounds likely.

[TheScorpion]

Stone is a top-15 forward in the NHL... controlled by a team with zero leverage in negotiations and who is a pending UFA. By all accounts, he is very available, and likely to be traded. The Flames should, and can, pony up.

The Flames can easily offer $9 million-plus to Stone, and they should. Bennett, Tkachuk, and Rittich can all easily fit under the cap in that scenario too. The salary cap is no longer $39 million... it's going up to $83 million next year and the Flames can work with that.

Stone playing on the "second line" would be a moot point, as the "first" line would likely receive similar deployment. Besides, he would be going from the worst situation in the NHL to one of the very best ones -- I'm sure, like James Neal, that he would be very happy anyway, especially given that his brother also plays here.

"Upgrading" the goaltending this year is possible if Smith is shipped out in a corresponding deal. Next year, the Flames can very easily bring in a backup goaltender who makes anywhere from $1-2 million, all while keeping Rittich on a bridge at about $2.5 for two years until Ryan's deal expires. That is if they assume that Rittich is "the answer" -- and, by most indications, it seems they do.

It can happen.

[goflamesgo18]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Right?

Take Brodie out next year and we still have

Giordano
Hanifin
Hamonic
Andersson
Valimaki
Kylington
Stone

Exactly. Here are the ages of those players respectively;

35
21
28
21
19
21
28

If we lose Brodie (and this isn't until the offseason), so be it. Flames will net a first rounder for him and we can draft a good D prospect. And possibly look at the UFA's available if more veteran leadership is needed on the blue line.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Right?

Take Brodie out next year and we still have

Giordano
Hanifin
Hamonic
Andersson
Valimaki
Kylington
Stone

You named exactly one right D who belongs on an NHL top four, and he is also an injury-prone, pending UFA himself who still isn't a top pair guy because he's an offensive black hole. And he's also the only player Hanifin has had any success with.

That's not a very balanced blue line other than peoples' hopes and prayers that Hanifin or Valimaki can handle the huge uptick in competition quality and play their OFF-side in a top pair capacity, or their delusions that Hanifin-Andersson is an actual NHL second pair (as if they haven't watched this entire season where those two together are simply a mess together).

Yeah, if that's our blue line going into next season we may as well wave a white flag, it's Oilers-esque optimism.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Easy on the hyperbole.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So if I am understanding things here...

Stone is a top 15 forward in the entire league and 26 years old

We can acquire said player for a late 1st, Dube and Kylington who have a combined 51 games of NHL experience?

We can then sign him to an 8 million dollar AAV, even though he has been offered at least if not more than that from Ottawa all the while we still get raises to Tkachuk, Rittich, and Bennett and (I assume keep his brother or does that not matter now) yet still be cap compliant?

He will then play on the 2nd line with Tkachuk and Backlund while being the highest paid player on the squad and watch the top line get the most minutes?

All that AND they upgrade the goaltending, bring in at least one depth dman and whatever else needs some shoring up?



Yeah, that sounds likely.

Lots of sarcasm for something that isn’t nearly as difficult as you make it out to be. Lots of big money players play on the second line. Just because it’s the second line, it doesn’t mean they’re not going to get lots of ice time. Stone is a game changer. If you can find a way to add him, you try. He checks all the boxes as far as team needs.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You named exactly one right D who belongs on an NHL top four, and he is also an injury-prone, pending UFA himself who still isn't a top pair guy because he's an offensive black hole. And he's also the only player Hanifin has had any success with.

That's not a very balanced blue line other than peoples' hopes and prayers that Hanifin or Valimaki can handle the huge uptick in competition quality and play their OFF-side in a top pair capacity, or their delusions that Hanifin-Andersson is an actual NHL second pair (as if they haven't watched this entire season where those two together are simply a mess together).

Yeah, if that's our blue line going into next season we may as well wave a white flag, it's Oilers-esque optimism.

It’s not Oilers esque optimism. The difference is our young guys will get a deep playoff run to get some experience.

[goflamesgo18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You named exactly one right D who belongs on an NHL top four, and he is also an injury-prone, pending UFA himself who still isn't a top pair guy because he's an offensive black hole. And he's also the only player Hanifin has had any success with.

That's not a very balanced blue line other than peoples' hopes and prayers that Hanifin or Valimaki can handle the huge uptick in competition quality and play their OFF-side in a top pair capacity, or their delusions that Hanifin-Andersson is an actual NHL second pair (as if they haven't watched this entire season where those two together are simply a mess together).

Yeah, if that's our blue line going into next season we may as well wave a white flag, it's Oilers-esque optimism.

If its the lack of a natural Right D in the top 4 you are worried about, then Flames should trade for one in offseason, or look at UFAs.

Stone is too good of a player to pass up. If we can acquire/sign him then definitely do it and tinker after.

Flames can re-sign Hamonic and Andersson has progressed very nicely.

[TheScorpion]

Phil Kessel played on the Penguins' third line during their Cup runs, by the way. It is very important to have excellent and even elite players throughout the lineup. The Pens had Crosby on line 1, Malkin on line 2, and Kessel on line 3. The very best depth a team can have is a depth of elite-ness. Adding forward depth doesn't mean adding third-liners... it means adding players who can break games wide open and contribute real wins. Stone is absolutely one of those players, and he's 100% available.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

It’s not Oilers esque optimism. The difference is our young guys will get a deep playoff run to get some experience.

Oh, right, because seven or eight sheltered playoff games will prepare them for an 82 game season of matching up nightly to Kopitar, Kucherov, Benn, Getzlaf, Crosby, McDavid, Bergeron, Malkin, Matthews, Kuznetsov, etc after spending this current season matched up to the Jujhar Khairas and Colton Sceviours of the world.

We have a chance to bring all these kids in the right way, without Justin Schultz/Darnell Nurse-ing them. Let them forcibly take a top four spot for themselves by stepping into that role and proving they're able to push one of our top three guys out of a spot.

So far one of our kids has played top 4 - Andersson and he's done zilch in it other than get some great saves from Rittich.

If its the lack of a natural Right D in the top 4 you are worried about, then Flames should trade for one in offseason, or look at UFAs.

Stone is too good of a player to pass up. If we can acquire/sign him then definitely do it and tinker after.

Flames can re-sign Hamonic and Andersson has progressed very nicely.

The Flames should trade for one in offseason when they have one. Or they should look at UFAs with cap space they won't remotely have. Gotcha.


As for Andersson progressing very nicely.



Those are some serious rookie Blinders. He's had some moments on the power play and on 6 v 5s. but he's also consistently the worst player on the ice when Jankowski isn't. But I'm sure the same people would love to move Backlund to make room for Jankowski because he's scored some pretty ones.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Good teams lose good players to expansion.

Anaheim lost Shea Theodore, who is both a good player and a player I have confidently said is not better than Oliver Kylington and been ridiculed for that opinion.

Nashville after the SCF lost Neal, who at the time was still considered a top 6F.

If we are in a situation fortunate enough where Valimaki, Andersson, Kylington, AND Hanifin are players we simply can't win without, we will be such a good team that losing a good player won't matter. Far more likely is that some of these cracks we see in these guys - Hanifin's poor reads, Andersson's inability to reacquire the puck in the Dzone, Valimaki's less than stellar point production, Kylington's less than stellar netfront play, are here to stay. We will be lucky if one of these four young guys is a bonafide top pairing guy in 2021 and beyond. Right now our roster has two, arguably even three defensemen who legitimately can handle top competition and suffocate the opponent when they are on the ice - Giordano, Hamonic, Brodie and we are spoiled by that (though the Hamonic acquisition came at a huge expense and I still disagree with it overall due to the long term implications). But look at the league, there are far more guys like Ben Hutton and Adam Larsson and Dion Phaneuf and Karl Alzner and Jonas Brodin and Olli Maata - guys who were prococious talents in their early twenties, who were still decent top 4 guys, yet got passed by previously no name guys, when it came to actually playing a big role on good teams and their flaws exposed.

I think we have some great young defensemen but being a "must protect defenseman" is no sure thing. Even Hanifin has not looked like a "must protect" defenseman even with his impressive offensive output.

There are also ways to game an expansion draft. Trade a proven piece like Hanifin for an unproven, but high-end expansion exempt player, maybe even a Cale Makar or Evan Bouchard. Trade our 2022 1st for Seattle to take Neal's contract off our hands. Etc.

Exposing your captain (who you rave about for his off ice stuff) just doesn't make sense, even if he is old and expensive.

There may be some points being missed here. Gio has goodwill that translates to ‘value to owner’ for the Flames (Captain, community, backstory etc...), but wouldn’t translate to value for Seattle (imho). I’m sure Gio wouldn’t be stoked about going to Seattle at 38 either. Seattle will know this too and I believe wouldn’t be interested in a grumpy Gio for two years of (likely) declining impact.

If it comes to that, I fully expect BT to offer a mid-round draft pick (packaged appropriately) to Seattle in exchange for the promise not to take Gio. But if BT protects a 38 year old over a career-prime 25 year old, then I’ll be very critical.


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[keenan87]

Frankly with a lineup like this, the minutes should be:
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm (18 mins)
Tkachuk-Backlund-Stone (18 mins)
Bennett-Jankowski-Neal (15 mins)
Hathaway-Ryan-AHL Player (9 mins)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

You wouldn't give up Dube and a 1st for Stone? Really?

He's at best the 4th best C in the entire system, and that's if he hits. He won't be better than Backlund in the next five years, and he likely isn't as good as Jankowksi in five years either.


I like Dube, but you trade him and the 1st for Mark Stone if that is a deal Ottawa is open to it.

I don't like rentals. I hate giving up two multi year assets for a two-three month one. If Stone could be Re-signed, sure.

Irrelevant to this, but Dube will overtake Jankowski within three years. He already skates better and has a better hockey IQ IMO.

[TheRealPepman]

Which Flyer goalie can we trade Mike Smith for? They got too many and I bet only one will back up Carter Hart for the rest of the season.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheRealPepman

Which Flyer goalie can we trade Mike Smith for? They got too many and I bet only one will back up Carter Hart for the rest of the season.

Why would Philly do that?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by TheRealPepman

Which Flyer goalie can we trade Mike Smith for? They got too many and I bet only one will back up Carter Hart for the rest of the season.

Why do you assume the Flyers are looking to give away their goalies like Ketchup Packets at McDonald's?

[goflamesgo18]

The Flames should trade for one in offseason when they have one. Or they should look at UFAs with cap space they won't remotely have. Gotcha.


As for Andersson progressing very nicely.



Those are some serious rookie Blinders. He's had some moments on the power play and on 6 v 5s. but he's also consistently the worst player on the ice when Jankowski isn't. But I'm sure the same people would love to move Backlund to make room for Jankowski because he's scored some pretty ones.[/QUOTE]

Thats a pretty small sample size for Andersson, and in a rookie defence season. The kid isn't scared to make mistakes, looks better and better every game. I take it you are one of those guys who doesn't actually watch the games, just checks the scoresheet and advanced stats later.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Lots of sarcasm for something that isn’t nearly as difficult as you make it out to be. Lots of big money players play on the second line. Just because it’s the second line, it doesn’t mean they’re not going to get lots of ice time. Stone is a game changer. If you can find a way to add him, you try. He checks all the boxes as far as team needs.

Rittich is 20-4-4... if he signs for anything under 3.5 then his agent is grossly negligent! Look at the analogues.

Chucky is getting ‘bank’ too...well struggle to fit under the salary cap as it is, without giving up assets (we’re still paying Brouwer as well).

Now we’re trying to sign Stone on top of that...not happening, never in a million years!

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Lots of sarcasm for something that isn’t nearly as difficult as you make it out to be. Lots of big money players play on the second line. Just because it’s the second line, it doesn’t mean they’re not going to get lots of ice time. Stone is a game changer. If you can find a way to add him, you try. He checks all the boxes as far as team needs.

Stone is going to get AT LEAST Jamie Benn money. 9.5 AAV.

List all the wingers who make that kind of dough and legitimately play on a 2nd line.