Mike Smith's... woes? He blows? Eating crows? Who knows! (Also David Rittich exists!)

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by timbit

1x the level you played at over decades or 1x from being an NHL goalie?

There may be a difference.

Oh come on. Explain the physics, if you really think you are so sure.

You expend a lot more energy battling for position in the corners in league games than you do in a lot of the shinny and beer league that I’m playing now.

Martin Brodeur’s word on workload is good enough for me

Certainly over those of some internet schmucks (site preferred nomenclature)

[AC]

Friedman and Marek were talking on their podcast a while ago about some prevailing thought that Vasilevskiy and Holtby both got burnt out last year. Remember Holtby struggled down the stretch and lost his starting job at the beginning of the playoffs.

Vasilevskiy was sidelined with fatigue at one point I believe.

https://www.tampabay.com/blogs/light...rst-time-no-1/

"Tiredness is something that I probably never faced before," Vasilevskiy, 23, said. "I mean, 50-plus games. When you play in 20-plus games, it's like you think, 'Oh, I'm good, I can play 60-plus.' But now when I'm on 50-plus, I'm like, 'That's tough.'

"So that's why sometimes I'm probably not as sharp, like (I was) probably the first half of the season. That's why I have to adjust and be on the top of my game."

Oct - 11 GP .927%
Nov - 10 GP .939%
Dec - 11 GP .943%
Jan - 9 GP .916%
Feb - 12 GP .916%
Mar - 9 GP .883%
Apr - 3 GP .900% (2 games of .840% and .844%)

[timbit]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Oh come on. Explain the physics, if you really think you are so sure.

You expend a lot more energy battling for position in the corners in league games than you do in a lot of the shinny and beer league that I’m playing now.

Martin Brodeur’s word on workload is good enough for me

Certainly over those of some internet schmucks (site preferred nomenclature)

Thanks. Shinny and beer league? Question answered.

1x? LOL

How many miles did you travel a season?

[icecube]

Tandems work. I think a big reason why the Penguins and Caps were able to win cups recently is because Grubauer and Murray were able to give Holtby and Fleury some rest. And vice versa. Get a real backup please.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by timbit

Thanks. Shinny and beer league? Question answered.

Yeah, I’m not in the NHL. You kidding me? Lol

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by AC

Friedman and Marek were talking on their podcast a while ago about some prevailing thought that Vasilevskiy and Holtby both got burnt out last year. Remember Holtby struggled down the stretch and lost his starting job at the beginning of the playoffs.

Vasilevskiy was sidelined with fatigue at one point I believe.

https://www.tampabay.com/blogs/light...rst-time-no-1/



Oct - 11 GP .927%
Nov - 10 GP .939%
Dec - 11 GP .943%
Jan - 9 GP .916%
Feb - 12 GP .916%
Mar - 9 GP .883%
Apr - 3 GP .900% (2 games of .840% and .844%)

I posted another look long ago at goalies month by month who played 70 plus games. This was not their trend.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by timbit

Thanks. Shinny and beer league? Question answered.

1x? LOL

How many miles did you travel a season?

Dude, what are you doing?

A couple of years back I hit 100 K on Aeroplan.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Again Brodeur liked playing a lot but always had that load
It isn’t just about a raw number of games being perfect. It also also about the year over year increase
I’m surprised this is much of a debate

[timbit]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Dude, what are you doing?

A couple of years back I hit 100 K on Aeroplan.

Impressive...how many practices a year?

[AC]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I posted another look long ago at goalies month by month who played 70 plus games. This was not their trend.

Perhaps, but Vasilevskiy himself said it was an issue last year, and the Caps felt it was the case for Holtby as well.

Neither side is likely an absolute, but it can certainly be a factor. Especially for a young goalie who hasn't had to play that often before. Rittich has played at most 48 games previously in the Czech league.

Vasilevskiy said in that article that you have to learn to handle that workload. It might take a couple years for Rittich to play more and more without noticeable drops in his performance.

Lundqvist on the matter:

"You learn by playing and dealing with yourself — your emotions, the ups and downs, and how to manage the energy," said Lundqvist, who has played in 60-plus games a season eight times. "It's hard for someone to tell you what to expect. You deal with it. You battle. Playing a lot of games, yeah, it's a grind. It's a battle. You just have to mentally be prepared for that."

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by AC

Friedman and Marek were talking on their podcast a while ago about some prevailing thought that Vasilevskiy and Holtby both got burnt out last year. Remember Holtby struggled down the stretch and lost his starting job at the beginning of the playoffs.

Vasilevskiy was sidelined with fatigue at one point I believe.

https://www.tampabay.com/blogs/light...rst-time-no-1/



Oct - 11 GP .927%
Nov - 10 GP .939%
Dec - 11 GP .943%
Jan - 9 GP .916%
Feb - 12 GP .916%
Mar - 9 GP .883%
Apr - 3 GP .900% (2 games of .840% and .844%)

Here it is - from post 474 in this thread

The justification for the importance placed on games played seems to be that it is more difficult to play more games. I remain unconvinced that playing additional games is significantly more difficult. I think that virtually every goalie in the NHL is capable of handling the workload. If they weren't, then they would have failed on some lower level (junior, college, minor-league) when they were asked to play 70-75 games a season.

But what do the numbers say about it? Yahoo Sports provides breakdowns of month-by-month stats, so I thought it would be interesting to see if goalies tired as the season went on, which is what would be expected if fatigue is an issue. To ensure that I had a full selection of statistics and that era issues wouldn't come into play, I chose a group of goalies that have played a lot of minutes in recent years and that began their careers relatively recently (e.g. late '90s or later).

Here is the list of goalies in the sample: Roberto Luongo, J.S. Giguere, Marty Turco, Tomas Vokoun, Evgeni Nabokov, Miikka Kiprusoff, Jose Theodore, Nikolai Khabibulin, Rick DiPietro, Marc Denis, Ryan Miller, and Henrik Lundqvist.

I broke down their statistics by month to see what the results were (minutes, win %, GAA, save %, shutouts):

October: 543 GP, 2.71, .905, .497 win %, 28 SO
November: 730 GP, 2.53, .912, .531 win %, 53 SO
December: 774 GP, 2.48, .914, .547 win %, 54 SO
January: 768 GP, 2.58, .910, .521 win %, 53 SO
February: 653 GP, 2.56, .912, .535 win %, 53 SO
March: 817 GP, 2.53, .913, .539 win %, 53 SO
April: 242 GP, 2.52, .913, .566 win %, 14 SO

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Seperate from concerns over Smiths play I’m surprised people don’t see the rationale in starting him
You need to manage Rittichs starts. Overplaying him could be a huge factor in an early exit from the playoffs. So he was likely going to play against the Caps or Canes. With the early start tomorrow it’s basically back to back

I think the onus is on Treliving to fix the situation, manage it if you will. Smith is clearly not up to the task so get someone who is. I get Rittich and the need to manage his starts but enough's enough. Pony up and get a replacement level goalie already. We are probably talking about a 3rd or a 4th round pick here.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by timbit

Impressive...how many practices a year?

This is bull####, and I think this is extremely insulting. In my world, there are no practices. I am expected to be "on" every single day. The days I am not, those are the days I could be fired. No guaranteed contract, my boss can take me out at any time, just because he doesn't like the tie I am wearing with the short I've selected to wear on that given day. I wish I had a bull#### guaranteed contract like NHL players have working in their favor, because my livelihood and retirement hang over my head every single day and I have to perform at optimum levels every single ####ing day. So save your bull#### about practices, because most people don't have opportunities to have "practices" to get their #### right on any given day, or in any given instance. People have school to get their practice sessions down, but after that, they are are performing or dying every single day of their lives.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again Brodeur liked playing a lot but always had that load
It isn’t just about a raw number of games being perfect. It also also about the year over year increase
I’m surprised this is much of a debate

Right, there could be a case to be made there. But Kipper jumped from 38 to 74 without issue.

It surprises me how it is blindly and generally accepted that games need to be managed, when there are a lot of workhorse goalies, the data for them says they don’t falter under heavy workload, and some of them say they can, and want to handle it. A lot of their teammates play 82 and are fine.

Totally agree that for risk mitigation, you need two goalies. And the second goalie needs playing time to be NHL ready.

It’s just the passion with which people argue the other side

[Jiri Hrdina]

For me it comes down to not believing seeding is that important outside getting home ice
So thankfully they are in a situation where they are able to manage the load and thus the risk

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by New Era

This is bull####, and I think this is extremely insulting. In my world, there are no practices. I am expected to be "on" every single day. The days I am not, those are the days I could be fired. No guaranteed contract, my boss can take me out at any time, just because he doesn't like the tie I am wearing with the short I've selected to wear on that given day. I wish I had a bull#### guaranteed contract like NHL players have working in their favor, because my livelihood and retirement hang over my head every single day and I have to perform at optimum levels every single ####ing day. So save your bull#### about practices, because most people don't have opportunities to have "practices" to get their #### right on any given day, or in any given instance. People have school to get their practice sessions down, but after that, they are are performing or dying every single day of their lives.

I think the point being made was about the physical toll
Apparently hit a touchy spot though

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For me it comes down to not believing seeding is that important outside getting home ice
So thankfully they are in a situation where they are able to manage the load and thus the risk

Sure. And for me the risk isn’t goalie 1 being fatigued, the risk is not having a good goalie 2 in case something happens to goalie 1

[timbit]

Originally Posted by New Era

This is bull####, and I think this is extremely insulting. In my world, there are no practices. I am expected to be "on" every single day. The days I am not, those are the days I could be fired. No guaranteed contract, my boss can take me out at any time, just because he doesn't like the tie I am wearing with the short I've selected to wear on that given day. I wish I had a bull#### guaranteed contract like NHL players have working in their favor, because my livelihood and retirement hang over my head every single day and I have to perform at optimum levels every single ####ing day. So save your bull#### about practices, because most people don't have opportunities to have "practices" to get their #### right on any given day, or in any given instance. People have school to get their practice sessions down, but after that, they are are performing or dying every single day of their lives.

Sorry to hear about your stress, except the discussion was on physical and mental workload capacity regarding the optimum number of games for a starting goalie in the NHL.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think the point being made was about the physical toll
Apparently hit a touchy spot though

Yeah, there are a lot of claims I don’t buy with respect to the physical toll.

I think if players can play 82, goalies can too. Data supports it for 70-75 game seasons.

I also don’t buy the ‘this team is tired because they played so much hockey last year’, when they went deep in the playoffs. 2-3 months off should be ample time to recover, no?

[Jiri Hrdina]

^beats me but knowing how much science is applied to sports now if teams think there’s something to it there probably is
But the same questions could be raised about how teams manage pitchers in mlb