Alberta Politics Thread v2

[Wormius]

Yeah, the tax seems to be background noise in our household expenditures. There hasn’t been a time in the grocery store where we are like, “we can’t afford cheese this week.” There are a lot of sabres being rattled over it and outrage shown by Facebook and Twitter trolls, but I can’t say I have noticed prices out of control.

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

The reason why is because this country and now this province is so hopelessly left-wing that a conservative party can't get enough votes to form government without capturing a majority of the social conservative vote. So basically they can't be as loud and proud on LGBTQ+ issues without offending that base. Hence they are perpetually vulnerable politically on social issues.

Would you mind explaining what about the province has become 'hopelessly left-wing'? I think that we might have different working definitions of left-wing.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I know that my grocery costs have increased, also my utility bills have gone up. Electricity went for example from $50 bucks a month to $60 bucks a month.



Gas has been balanced off by the drop in the price of oil.



I'm also not eligible for the rebate.



I mean honestly, my carbon signature is so low now that the government should be writing me a reward check.



Just from working from home, I've gone from about $120 a month for gas down to $30 bucks a month for gas.

If you are working from home on a daily basis though, wouldn’t you expect utilities to go up?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

The reason why is because this country and now this province is so hopelessly left-wing that a conservative party can't get enough votes to form government without capturing a majority of the social conservative vote. So basically they can't be as loud and proud on LGBTQ+ issues without offending that base. Hence they are perpetually vulnerable politically on social issues.

This is a new one for me. The UCP would be "loud and proud" in their support of LGBTQ issues if it weren't for "left-wingers".

You honestly believe this? You have to be kidding or completely delusional.

[crazy_eoj]

I've certainly noticed the increased costs due to the carbon tax.

Yet, it seems like climate change is still a problem?

So weird. It's almost as if anything we do without the buy in of major emitters will have zero effect whatsoever. But boy do I feel good about paying extra!

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by wireframe

Would you mind explaining what about the province has become 'hopelessly left-wing'? I think that we might have different working definitions of left-wing.

I feel like some people like to say that when there are certain policies they don’t like but don’t really affect taxpayers.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I've certainly noticed the increased costs due to the carbon tax.

Yet, it seems like climate change is still a problem?

So weird. It's almost as if anything we do without the buy in of major emitters will have zero effect whatsoever. But boy do I feel good about paying extra!

The only thing missing from this post is holding up a snowball and saying "see, no Global Warming!"

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I've certainly noticed the increased costs due to the carbon tax.

Yet, it seems like climate change is still a problem?

So weird. It's almost as if anything we do without the buy in of major emitters will have zero effect whatsoever. But boy do I feel good about paying extra!

Right on!!!! I mean we've had a Carbon Tax in Alberta for 2 WHOLE YEARS and it hasn't solved global warming! What a waste of time!

[woob]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

The only thing missing from this post is holding up a snowball and saying "see, no Global Warming!"

So good.

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I feel like some people like to say that when there are certain policies they don’t like but don’t really affect taxpayers.

I was asking seriously. Your response reads like a dig at Cowboy and that was not my intention.

Part of my issue with modern political discourse is the left-wing right-wing divide. I can't lump all my views into one of the two 'sides' and I'd guess that most other people feel the same way. I think that part of the problem is that left and right don't have concrete definitions - we each define the terms differently.

I worry that defining myself as left-wing traps me into agreeing with some 'left' political leader on everything that they do. I don't want Justin Trudeau to tell me what I think about every issue just because I agree that Canada needs to take action on climate change. I really think that if I start defining myself as left or right, that I will following the group to every single issue without even noticing.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Right on!!!! I mean we've had a Carbon Tax in Alberta for 2 WHOLE YEARS and it hasn't solved global warming! What a waste of time!

It would be nice to know what effect if any it has had on co2 production in Alberta. It seems like carbon taxes have no effect on consumption until about 300 a tonne. It's also a general revenue now instead of a separate fund for green projects so I'm not really seeing the point. I'm ok with a sales tax disguised as a carbon tax but it's not helpful to pretend it has anything to do with the environment.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Right on!!!! I mean we've had a Carbon Tax in Alberta for 2 WHOLE YEARS and it hasn't solved global warming! What a waste of time!

The funnier part is, it doesn't matter one bit whether Alberta, or Canada has a carbon tax at all.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Neither does me recycling yet my blue bin is full.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

The funnier part is, it doesn't matter one bit whether Alberta, or Canada has a carbon tax at all.

Is the ostrich supposed to represent you or someone else? I'm confused.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I think it's looking for the last bit of water in the sand after climate change ruins the planet.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Wormius

If you are working from home on a daily basis though, wouldn’t you expect utilities to go up?

My electricity which is my only utility had gone from 45 to 56 before I started working from home, now its sitting about about 65+ now that I'm working from home.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

My electricity which is my only utility had gone from 45 to 56 before I started working from home, now its sitting about about 65+ now that I'm working from home.

You disgusting carbon polluter. Pay the hell up! /s

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

It would be nice to know what effect if any it has had on co2 production in Alberta. It seems like carbon taxes have no effect on consumption until about 300 a tonne. It's also a general revenue now instead of a separate fund for green projects so I'm not really seeing the point. I'm ok with a sales tax disguised as a carbon tax but it's not helpful to pretend it has anything to do with the environment.

Hmmm.. which countries have a carbon tax here....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

It would be nice to know what effect if any it has had on co2 production in Alberta. It seems like carbon taxes have no effect on consumption until about 300 a tonne. It's also a general revenue now instead of a separate fund for green projects so I'm not really seeing the point. I'm ok with a sales tax disguised as a carbon tax but it's not helpful to pretend it has anything to do with the environment.

This was what I had bought up when the tax came in.


Treat it like a trust or a separate account and make it report-able So that we could look at amount collected, amount spent on green initiatives, amount spent on other stuff.


Instead it goes into general revenue.


When I look here from Nov 30th


https://www.alberta.ca/budget-revenue.aspx

The carbon levy is estimated to raise $1.34 billion in 2018-19.

In their last budget they talked about something like 5 billion in green spending over including 500 million a year in rebates.


But all these numbers aren't hard numbers.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Hmmm.. which countries have a carbon tax here....

I don't even really know where to begin to criticize that "graph".

First, it doesn't relate the changes in CO2 emissions to either economic or demographic size of each state, rendering it essentially useless.

Second, its simply a snap shot taken in one year which does not capture long term trends in behaviour (which, as has already been pointed out to you, is exactly how carbon taxes are intended to work).

Third, and probably most importantly, no one has argued that the existence of a carbon tax is the sole factor which affects the rate at which a state might emit CO2.