Show business is littered with morally bankrupt narcissists. Let the monkeys dance, and if enough people watch to make them successful, whatever. If anyone actually cares about the moral integrity of stars Hollywood would be dead.
It really is remarkable how some people look to actors, musicians, and reality-TV stars as some sort of moral guides. You don't get anywhere in those industries without being a ruthless bastard. And if you weren't entitled and narcissistic to begin with, the riches and fawning adulation will soon fix that.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
The Following User Says Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
It’s not about them being moral guides for Pete’s sake. Who is doing that?
It’s about there be consequences for actions.
They should be held accountable just like anyone else
It’s not about them being moral guides for Pete’s sake. Who is doing that?
It’s about there be consequences for actions.
They should be held accountable just like anyone else
Watch any chat shows? Award shows? Twitter? The moral lectures never end.
It’s not about them being moral guides for Pete’s sake. Who is doing that?
It’s about there be consequences for actions.
They should be held accountable just like anyone else
There has been consequences for their actions though. How the public responds afterwards dicates if they can resume their career or not. If legally there is no grounds to arrest them, then they have a right just like anyone else to resume their career. And if there's enough people that are willing to support them after the fact, then that's the way it is. They're not at fault for continuing to work if the public supports them.
And let's be frank, people that are famous, power, and money have more leverage than a regular Joe getting caught up in the same situation. Chris Brown beat the snot of Rihanna almost 10 years ago, and enough time passed by that he's now prevalent in the music scene once again. People move on since it becomes ancient history.
And let's be frank, people that are famous, power, and money have more leverage than a regular Joe getting caught up in the same situation. Chris Brown beat the snot of Rihanna almost 10 years ago, and enough time passed by that he's now prevalent in the music scene once again. People move on since it becomes ancient history.
I view Chris Brown like Bryan Singer - someone who has gotten away with a lot (allegedly). There was a lot of backlash around the Rihanna incident, but that's because Rihanna is famous, and he bounced back fairly quickly despite having abuse allegations follow him around, and i just read that he was arrested for rape last week in Germany I think.
Why are people in a rush to forgive Louis and see him get a second chance? Is it because he's funny?
What he did was serious. He allegedly performed sexual acts in front of people and in some cases allegedly blocked them from leaving that situation.
He didn't physically assault them but that doesn't mean what he did shouldn't be taken seriously.
What specifically has he done in the less-than-year being out of the public eye to improve himself or reform? Anything?
Or did he just take a break long enough to hope things cooled off
Frankly I'm perfectly fine if his career is ruined forever. I don't know why he should deserve anything more than that.
I don't think his career should be ruined forever, but just like he's free to do edgy standup, I'm free to criticize him at any point.
for louis, I think it's fair to let the public decide. hate him, don't watch anything with him in it. like him or forgive him? have at 'er.
personally, I disliked him to begin with and just choose to ignore him now.
I view Chris Brown like Bryan Singer - someone who has gotten away with a lot (allegedly). There was a lot of backlash around the Rihanna incident, but that's because Rihanna is famous, and he bounced back fairly quickly despite having abuse allegations follow him around, and i just read that he was arrested for rape last week in Germany I think.
You still haven't said what you want to see happen. Short of legal sanctions, what does 'held accountable' actually mean?
Not to speak for Jiri, but ideally he would be held accountable by the public and his fans. Social pressure that prevents venues from giving him a place to do his comedy, networks from airing his shows, comedians from working with him. The MeToo movement isn't just about criminal prosecution but giving victims a voice and knowing that the 'world' stands behind them.
But when you got people saying that being forced to watch a man who holds complete power over you masturbate is just 'unconformable' and that they should be 'fine', and this predator is already doing shows a year after admitting to his sexual misconduct, it just seems like it's lip-service. Both from him, and the "public" who are suppose to be holding these guys accountable now.
He was doing this and denying it for at least 20 years, maybe spend a bit more than a year before he gets to be clean of it.
The Following User Says Thank You to Oling_Roachinen For This Useful Post:
Not to speak for Jiri, but ideally he would be held accountable by the public and his fans. Social pressure that prevents venues from giving him a place to do his comedy, networks from airing his shows, comedians from working with him. The MeToo movement isn't just about criminal prosecution but giving victims a voice and knowing that the 'world' stands behind them.
But when you got people saying that being forced to watch a man who holds complete power over you masturbate is just 'unconformable' and that they should be 'fine', and this predator is already doing shows a year after admitting to his sexual misconduct, it just seems like it's lip-service. Both from him, and the "public" who are suppose to be holding these guys accountable now.
He was doing this and denying it for at least 20 years, maybe spend a bit more than a year before he gets to be clean of it.
See I don't agree with this. There is a reason there are legal proceedings when someone is charged with an offense. Witnesses go on the stand under oath. Testimonies are taken, cross-examinations, etc. If after that the defendant is found guilty they should be punished accordingly. Your idea of using social pressure to ruin him is nothing more than vigilante justice based one side of the story and everyone that is accused of a crime deserves their day in court. People like you are driving society backwards to the days of burning people at the stake because they were accused of being witches.
His career has already been massively damaged. He's lost millions in lost projects, credibility, etc. Do you want to keep your foot on his neck pushing him into possible depression (he's a comedian so he's already there), drug use, alcoholism, suicidal thoughts? What's your end game here and who are you to decide this is right or fair?
Last edited by Erick Estrada; 01-28-2019 at 08:13 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Erick Estrada For This Useful Post:
Your idea of using social pressure to ruin him is nothing more than vigilante justice based one side of the story
We got his side of the story.
This isn't the case of not knowing what happened or hearing one side of the story. So your point is useless. We know what he did.
Maybe on a different person, like say Les Moonves or Bryan Singer or Kevin Spacey or any of the numerous other examples where they are being denied, that argument makes some sense.
But to pick Louis C.K. who started off his apology with "These stories are true..." is the person you're going to argue is being accused of a witch?!?
Not to speak for Jiri, but ideally he would be held accountable by the public and his fans. Social pressure that prevents venues from giving him a place to do his comedy, networks from airing his shows, comedians from working with him.
How is this different from being prevented from working anymore? Actually, it sounds like not being able to work anymore plus being ostracized and shunned by your colleagues and many of your friends. I mean, if that's what you think is a just and fitting consequence for his actions, fine, I'm just trying to pin down what you're calling for here.
The thing that really confuses me about this discussion is that this literally does not affect your life unless you let it. You can pretty easily ignore Louis CK's career (and his existence) if you want to, yet some of you guys are really upset about it continuing even though presumably you're not going to have any interaction with it. The guy did a bad thing -just how bad seems to be a matter of disagreement, but everyone agrees it was bad to some extent. As a result, you seem to desperately want to know that he's being made to suffer, even though his suffering won't really affect you. Somehow you seem to think that expressing said wish is demonstrative of you being a good person.
Peoples' moral intuitions are often pretty baffling.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
His career has already been massively damaged. He's lost millions in lost projects, credibility, etc. Do you want to keep your foot on his neck pushing him into possible depression (he's a comedian so he's already there), drug use, alcoholism, suicidal thoughts? What's your end game here and who are you to decide this is right or fair?
Wow, having your career ruined sounds horrible for a comedian. Maybe that's why this predator used it as a tactic to shut up his victim.
But don't worry, he'll be fine. It's not traumatic, just a bit uncomfortable.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Oling_Roachinen For This Useful Post:
Wow, having your career ruined sounds horrible for a comedian. Maybe that's why this predator used it as a tactic to shut up his victim.
But don't worry, he'll be fine. It's not traumatic, just a bit uncomfortable.
I can't comment on that because what I have read (I don't pretend to know all the details and could be wrong) it sounds like it was his agent that maybe making things difficult for some of these women (they only make reference to the agent's name) which is quite common when protecting their golden goose. But lets not have facts get in the way or an old fashioned witch hunt and assume that it was all hatched by Luis the mastermind.
Last edited by Erick Estrada; 01-28-2019 at 08:22 AM.
How is this different from being prevented from working anymore? Actually, it sounds like not being able to work anymore plus being ostracized and shunned by your colleagues and many of your friends.
Sounds about right to me for a sexual predator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
The thing that really confuses me about this discussion is that this literally does not affect your life unless you let it.
So is pretty much everything that happens in the world. But I can still form opinions on things happening in the States, or Syria, China, wherever. Not affecting me doesn't seem like a great argument for me not to have an opinion. Actually seems like an extremely silly argument.
What it does is it affects society. Here we have this sexual predator for 20 years go out and admit to it, and he's welcomed back in open arms. What does that tell other victims of sexual misconduct? Every subordinate who's boss is hitting on him or her, touching inappropriately, that's nothing compared to being forced to watch a guy masturbate, and the idea is that "it's not that bad, don't worry about it you'll be fine." And all the boss needs to do is take a quick vacation and everything is fine again if they do speak out?
Well, okay, but you've just appointed yourself and those who think like you as some sort of ancillary justice system, meting out punishments that are as draconian, if not more so, as the criminal system, based apparently on your intuitions about what "sounds about right" to you. Sorry man, but I just don't trust you to do that. Even less so when you're brimming with self-righteousness like you are on this topic.
Sexual misconduct generally, as an issue, affects society. Louis CK's career continuing doesn't, really. He's not Donald Trump, making day to day decisions that hurt thousands of people; he's a stand-up comic. I can understand caring about the issue, I just don't get why people think that their fervent desire to see someone suffer (in this case someone who's admitted wrongdoing and claims to be contrite, but really, anyone) somehow stands as evidence of your morality.
And yeah, I didn't argue that it was okay, or that bosses inappropriately touching employees was okay, so I'm not sure why you're trying to put that on me. I didn't say anything about the merits of the case, other than "people seem to have a variety of intuitions about how bad his behaviour is". Which... they do.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to CorsiHockeyLeague For This Useful Post:
Well, okay, but you've just appointed yourself and those who think like you as some sort of ancillary justice system, meting out punishments that are as draconian, if not more so, as the criminal system, based apparently on your intuitions about what "sounds about right" to you.
But if you don't want people to treat you like a sexual predator, don't be a sexual predator. Unless your rich and funny, I guess.
The Following User Says Thank You to Oling_Roachinen For This Useful Post:
But if you don't want people to treat you like a sexual predator, don't be a sexual predator. Unless your rich and funny, I guess.
This is what it comes down for me too.
If most of us committed similar acts we would have a hard time finding employment in our profession. But because Louis is really funny (to some) he gets to return after less than a year.
What I would like is to see more venues and bookers hold a line not to book him.
I'd like him to outline specifically what he did during his less than year away. Did he get help? What did he do to sit back and listen as he promised? Did he engage with victims to understand the severity of what he did?
It seems reasonable for him to have to at minimum share this if he expects to be welcomed back
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jiri Hrdina For This Useful Post:
I’m in the camp of ‘who cares’. Show business is littered with morally bankrupt narcissists. Let the monkeys dance, and if enough people watch to make them successful, whatever. If anyone actually cares about the moral integrity of stars Hollywood would be dead.
I have to agree.
This one is going to have to be arbitrated in the court of Public Opinion.
If you dont like it then dont give him your time or money, but they're not throwing the guy in jail so if he wants to get back to work and can do that and people will pay him then what else is there to do?
As V said, Let the Monkeys Dance. If nobody pays to see them then they're not going to dance for free.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
