Lazar: "It's become obvious to me that I'm an NHL player"

[kyuss275]

Was hoping that the bump in this thread was the announcement of calling up Lazar. Like to see how he would fit on 4th line. I personally don't see much in Mangiapine.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Was hoping that the bump in this thread was the announcement of calling up Lazar. Like to see how he would fit on 4th line. I personally don't see much in Mangiapine.

Mangiapane seems like someone who'd benefit from a change in numbers. You can't wear 88 and have 1 point in 23 NHL games.

[jayswin]

The biggest problem with Mangiapane is his shot is pretty close to zero threat on NHL goaltending. Unfortunately, that will probably be the dagger to his hopes of an NHL career. But he can definitely be a star AHL'er and make some good coin.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The biggest problem with Mangiapane is his shot is pretty close to zero threat on NHL goaltending. Unfortunately, that will probably be the dagger to his hopes of an NHL career. But he can definitely be a star AHL'er and make some good coin.

I actually think that his shot is his best NHL asset right now. He just hasn’t been able to leverage it. I’d say strength on pucks and board battles has been his NHL downfall to date.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

I actually think that his shot is his best NHL asset right now. He just hasn’t been able to leverage it. I’d say strength on pucks and board battles has been his NHL downfall to date.

Yeah. I won't pretend to know all of Mangiapane's attributes, but I definitely know his ability to battle/retrieve pucks is not up to NHL level. He gets knocked down way too often, and doesn't just lose the battle but also loses body position. He's young, but that definitely needs to change.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Was hoping that the bump in this thread was the announcement of calling up Lazar. Like to see how he would fit on 4th line. I personally don't see much in Mangiapine.

Sorry to disappoint!

I do think that he would be a great addition to the 4th line. I think his speed and tenacity would be especially useful assets in the postseason. Hopefully he gets the call later this year, after waivers aren't an issue.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The biggest problem with Mangiapane is his shot is pretty close to zero threat on NHL goaltending. Unfortunately, that will probably be the dagger to his hopes of an NHL career. But he can definitely be a star AHL'er and make some good coin.

He's a good story and all being a 6th round pick that's played well in junior and AHL but I don't think he's going to be a regular NHL player. It looks like his ceiling is Austin Czarnik.

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He's a good story and all being a 6th round pick that's played well in junior and AHL but I don't think he's going to be a regular NHL player. It looks like his ceiling is Austin Czarnik.

I agree he may never be an impact player but he plays harder than Czarnik and He deserves a shot on the 4th line

[EldrickOnIce]

He will likely get that shot when rosters expand after trade deadline.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

Yeah. I won't pretend to know all of Mangiapane's attributes, but I definitely know his ability to battle/retrieve pucks is not up to NHL level. He gets knocked down way too often, and doesn't just lose the battle but also loses body position. He's young, but that definitely needs to change.

His board battle ability is good. He loses less board battles than his center Derek Ryan does. Most of the time he cycles it to Ryan who is the one meekly coughing up the puck.

Where he struggles is retrieving the bad dump-ins Hathaway makes on a consistent basis. That's not body position, it's poor puck placement on the dump in. Hathaway was guilty of this last year too which killed Bennett's ability to retrieve much the same way.

We have yet to see him in a role where he is set up to be successful. He's an undersized player yes but he has been attached to either an undersized center and our worst offensive forward (Ryan/Hathaway) or a center who struggles to drive play and the most enigmatic forward on this team (Jankowski/Neal). He is set up to fail. Our bottom six has not been good 5v5 all year and that has been masked by their success on special teams.

Give him a center who drives play better than Jankowski and wins battles better than Ryan and wears #93, and give him a right winger who doesn't just settle for the hopeless dump to the wrong corner, and you'll see what Mangiapane is capable of. Something like Mangiapane-Bennett-Lazar or Mangiapane-Bennett-Neal.

[Flash Walken]

I don't think much of mangiapanne as an NHLer but I think he has surpassed Lazar at this point.

I like the idea that you could call up mangiapanne in the playoffs to play 7 minutes a night and you can be reasonably sure he won't burn you in those 7 minutes. He may be lacking top end output that sees him cement an NHL role for himself, but he has the dependability you want in a callup playing 4th line minutes.

Even though he plays hard, I don't know if you can say the same about Lazar.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't think much of mangiapanne as an NHLer but I think he has surpassed Lazar at this point.

I like the idea that you could call up mangiapanne in the playoffs to play 7 minutes a night and you can be reasonably sure he won't burn you in those 7 minutes. He may be lacking top end output that sees him cement an NHL role for himself, but he has the dependability you want in a callup playing 4th line minutes.

Even though he plays hard, I don't know if you can say the same about Lazar.

I don't think Lazar ever burned us and I think he's a decent option to give 6-7 minutes a night. Lazar is big, fast and has decent hockey sense. It's the shooting percentage of 3.1% and the way offence died on his stick that is terrible.

Now - assuming that Lazar has his confidence back and plays will no longer die on his stick - he's a much better choice than Mangiapane for the playoffs. So whats the hold up?

It's has to be trade deadline. If the flames call up Lazar now and then add a forward at the deadline (say Simmonds for picks), they'd have to waive Lazar so he doesn't go stale sitting up in the pressbox. And Lazar would not clear waivers at this point in the season. So the flames would lose depth for the playoff run.

If the flames upgrade a body or stand still at the deadline, Lazar will likely be called up to finish the season with the team as a fourth liner IMO.

[sa226]

I know its a discussion, but I find it interesting how we can just so confidently peg Lazar as "done" when so much else has changed since he last suited up.

Apparently his confidence is as good as its ever been and the big club is not a Gulutzan trash heap. To me thats reason enough to give him another shot.

He may have hands of stone, but with his speed and energy I like him on the fourth line better than Czarnik or Mangiapane.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

[redforever]

Originally Posted by sa226

I know its a discussion, but I find it interesting how we can just so confidently peg Lazar as "done" when so much else has changed since he last suited up.

Apparently his confidence is as good as its ever been and the big club is not a Gulutzan trash heap. To me thats reason enough to give him another shot.

He may have hands of stone, but with his speed and energy I like him on the fourth line better than Czarnik or Mangiapane.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Kind of like a lot were afraid to try Rittich as the starter because he struggled there last year.

Young players make mistakes. It is how you learn from those mistakes and go forward that determines your ceiling as an NHL player.

[TheIronMaiden]

The issue with Lazar is that he is a known commodity. After 250 plus games the Flames know what to expect. With some of the other call ups, they might show you something you didn't know they could do at an NHL level. Lazar doesn't bring much, and while he is only 23, there is not a ton of time for development. Barring an injury to Hathaway, I doubt we see him in Flames silks. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets dealt at the deadline to someone with no forward depth like the Avs.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by sa226

I know its a discussion, but I find it interesting how we can just so confidently peg Lazar as "done" when so much else has changed since he last suited up.

Lazar's production was also one of the few last year that improved as last season was winding down

Lazar had 2g 5a in his final 27 games (21pt pace), 0g 5a in his first 39 (11pt pace). A 21 pt pace may not be spectacular, but it's about what Hathaway is putting up and I think Lazar's dynamic speed is an asset. Of course, I don't see Lazar as a difference maker either way, but our bottom six has been a weakness. Using Ryan and Jankowski as proxies for our bottom six, our bottom six has a -16 goal differential at 5v5 while Backlund/Monahan have a +23. Hathaway/Janko/Ryan have been key PKers but overall there's some room for improvement there one way or another. I want a bottom six that can, at minimum just break even so our top six's advantage can be just that.

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by redforever

Kind of like a lot were afraid to try Rittich as the starter because he struggled there last year.

Young players make mistakes. It is how you learn from those mistakes and go forward that determines your ceiling as an NHL player.

I don't think anyone was "afraid", it's just normal good player development not to throw young players into the deep end. You ease them in and grow their confidence. It's on Riddich to respond well to the challenge and to his credit he did. No matter where you go it's the same process -- unless you're in Edmonton.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Lazar's production was also one of the few last year that improved as last season was winding down

Lazar had 2g 5a in his final 27 games (21pt pace), 0g 5a in his first 39 (11pt pace). A 21 pt pace may not be spectacular, but it's about what Hathaway is putting up and I think Lazar's dynamic speed is an asset. Of course, I don't see Lazar as a difference maker either way, but our bottom six has been a weakness. Using Ryan and Jankowski as proxies for our bottom six, our bottom six has a -16 goal differential at 5v5 while Backlund/Monahan have a +23. Hathaway/Janko/Ryan have been key PKers but overall there's some room for improvement there one way or another. I want a bottom six that can, at minimum just break even so our top six's advantage can be just that.

If all 4 lines were outscoring other teams lines, we'd always be ahead and basically never lose.
There's a reason why they're -16:
-On road it is very likely they end up playing against top 2 lines here and there.
-At home time to time they will get caught against other teams top 2 lines.
-They're out there with our rookie D pair.
-Ratio of O zone start vs D zone starts.

I'd be curios to see if you can provide a breakdown of the rest of the leagues top 2 lines vs bottom 2 lines.

I'm not saying they're world beaters but this bottom 6 has been a pleasant surprise compared to years past. The fact that Janko, Ryan, Hathaway, Bennett are all key PKers, bodes well for top lines.

[Erick Estrada]

I got no issues with the Flames giving Lazar another look. They spent a 2nd round pick acquiring him and I would be a little worried about an organization that was so casual to write off a 2nd round pick. He's had a good season making the AHL all-star team so I'm happy that he never sulked about being sent down and worked his butt off to get back. That should be rewarded IMO and I feel it's a little shortsighted to just discard him as trash after last season under Gulutzan that was a write-off for a lot of players.

[Robbob]

The big knock on him is he couldn't produce. I don't you can fault him on effort. He is a bigger heavier body than some of the parts in and out on that 4th line. He can skate and bring energy.

I think the AHL was perfect for him because he could find his confidence and work on what type of NHL player he can be. I don't think he would look that much out of place if they gave him another chance. I think as soon as the season in Stockton is mathematically over he will be one of the four call ups after the trade deadline.